Religion on the Mind

Spencer Bland joins me to discuss his journey through various Christian denominations as a southern-based comedian who now takes a more open-ended approach to spirituality. We explore how he uses his religious background as source material for his comedy, including a hilarious story about a demon named Kyle, while maintaining a thoughtful and nuanced perspective that honors personal experience rather than broad critique. Our discussion brings up the parallels between comedy and therapy as tools for processing religious experiences and how humor can help acknowledge both the absurdity and significance of our past. 

Spencer's Instagram | @spencerspicy

Highlights

08:57 The Role of Humor in Religion

17:49 The Intersection of Comedy and Religion

31:02 From Pastor to Comedian

54:54 Healing from Religious Trauma

01:10:07 Reflections on Mission Trips and Cultural Christianity

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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Around Christmas, we often rebroadcast a favorite episode. This year, we’re revisiting an episode about nurturant versus authoritarian religion, one of my personal favorites and a listener favorite too. It’s especially relevant now as many of us reflect on family dynamics over the holidays—parenting, upbringing, and how we think about God. The episode is both practical and theoretical, with insights for parents and anyone thinking about their own childhood.

Original Show Notes:

John Sanders joins me to drop one of the single most helpful distinctions I have ever heard in discussions of religion and culture. His identification and explanation of Nurturant and Authoritative approaches to religion, politics, parenting, and more has been kicking around my head daily for 6 weeks now. You should not skip this episode. And you should probably support indie publishers and buy his book Embracing Prodigals

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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Over breakfast in San Diego, I sat down with returning guest Kristen Tideman to analyze the 2024 presidential election through fresh eyes. Drawing from a 15-speaker mega-panel Kristen had just attended at the American Academy of Religion conference, we explored several alternative frameworks for understanding the election results. We discussed the concept of "vibes-based voting" using David French's curling analogy, which suggests voter sentiment (like a curling stone) can only be marginally influenced by campaigns. This led us to examine how feelings about the economy, nostalgia, and desire for change played a bigger role than explicit policy positions. We challenged the prevailing white Christian nationalism narrative by looking at immigrant voting patterns, and explored Trump's appeal as an "avatar of hope" for voters frustrated with cultural constraints. In the Patron-only second half, we delved into identity politics, anti-elite sentiment, and potential voting reforms. While more political coverage surely lies ahead, this conversation helped foster greater understanding of how we arrived at these results.

Kristen's Company Website | tidycocreative.com

Highlights

04:20 The Impact of Politics on Daily Life

09:42 What is “Vibes-Based Voting?”

16:10 Beyond White Christian Nationalism

25:14 Trump as an Avatar of Hope

34:11 The Role of Identity in Politics

___________________________________________

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In this episode, I speak with Kristian Smith, a fifth-generation Baptist preacher doing groundbreaking work at the intersection of Black church traditions and progressive theology. While many white religious deconstruction journeys (including my own) focus primarily on intellectual and theological questions, Kristian explains how Black church deconstruction involves much deeper communal and embodied dimensions. The Black church has historically served as more than just a religious institution—it's been the heart of Black community life and one of the few spaces where Black Americans could gather with true autonomy. Kristian offers a fascinating framework that separates spirituality from theology, arguing that while Black church spirituality (including its emotional expressiveness, music, and communal experience) has direct links to African spiritual traditions, its theology was largely borrowed from white evangelicalism. His work focuses on preserving these life-giving cultural and spiritual elements while developing new theological frameworks that better serve people's full humanity. Our conversation opened my eyes to the unique dynamics within Black Christian communities and the diverse ways people experience faith transitions, particularly when religious identity is deeply intertwined with cultural preservation and community belonging.

Kristian's Instagram | @kristiansmith

Kristian's Podcast | Holy Smokes: Cigars and Spirituality

Highlights

09:05 The Emotional Weight of Leaving the Black Church

18:06 The Disconnect Between Black and White Deconstruction Spaces

30:00 Progressive Theology and the Black Church

44:56 The Vision for a Progressive Black Church

52:36 Navigating Leadership Dynamics in Multicultural Spaces

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Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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Jon Ogden, co-founder of Uplift Kids, joined me to talk about navigating spiritual parenting in ways that prevent religious trauma. As a father of two young children, and someone who frequently references Dr. Lisa Miller's research on child spirituality and mental health, I was particularly interested in Uplift's approach. Jon explained their model of combining internal guidance with modern science and ancient wisdom from a variety of traditions, moving beyond simplistic "follow your heart" messaging. We explored how parents can't simply transfer their mature spiritual understanding to children, who must undergo their own developmental journey. I found their developmentally-appropriate framework promising for helping children build a foundation that can withstand future questioning without causing a spiritual crisis. Our patron-only segment covered post-secularism, concerning trends in youth meaninglessness, and the importance of balanced virtue ethics.

Want to try Uplift for your family? Join here to get a two-week trial and use code PERMISSION to let them know I sent you.

Highlights:

02:59 The Role of Spirituality in Child Development

12:00 The Process of Spiritual Development

18:13 The Inner Compass: Guiding Children in Life

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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For our 300th episode, Josh, Tony and I get together for another Generation Gap Culture Hour. We reflect on our recent Beer Camp adventures (including an unexpected AirBnb mystery guest) before diving into cultural analysis of the Tyson-Paul fight and our changing relationships with political media consumption. We explore how each of us is processing post-election coverage differently — from my focus on constructive analysis to Josh abandoning his NPR habits to Tony's insights from conversations with his adult children. The discussion highlights the privilege of academic distance while examining how to balance staying informed with mental health. The Patron-only second half includes deeper dives into progressive Christianity, academic discourse, and Joe Rogan's shifting stance on spirituality.

Highlights:

06:14 Would You Rather: Podcasting Dilemmas

14:56 Mike Tyson vs. Jake Paul: A Cultural Commentary

20:52 Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions

38:50 Political Perspectives and Siloed Views

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Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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Writer Sarah Southern joins me to share her deconstruction journey from fundamentalism to freedom. Sarah shares how her initial process was paralyzed by the infinite stakes of questioning faith, until wonder—particularly through Colorado's mountains—offered an unexpected path forward. Drawing on Abraham Heschel's wisdom about wonder as the foundation of religious experience, Sarah found that direct encounters with natural beauty provided a way to remain spiritually engaged while processing religious trauma. Rather than requiring doctrinal certainty, this approach created space for authentic exploration through direct experience of the sacred. For Patrons, our conversation continues with Sarah's travels to Salzburg and Japan, exploring how different cultural and religious traditions can expand our spiritual horizons even further.

Sarah's Instagram | sarahbsouthern

Sarah's Substack | @sarahsouthern

Sarah's Article | Embracing Violence

Highlights:

02:01 Navigating Deconstruction and Crises of Belief

05:50 The Impact of Fear and Violence in Faith

10:05 Cultural Evolution and Human Connection

15:55 Traveling Through Faith and Diversity

22:07 The Balance of Wonder and Fear in Faith

25:58 Finding Beauty in New Landscapes

Dan's New Substack | Religion on the Mind

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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We're back with another comedian episode of YHP, this time featuring Tom Fell, whose brilliant social media videos skewer corporate speak and existential themes with painful accuracy. Our conversation centers on psychedelics and consciousness, where Tom demonstrates what I'd call "materialist wonder" - particularly in his story about encountering a whale shortly after taking mushrooms. Rather than viewing it through a supernatural or New Age lens, Tom finds deeper meaning in understanding the scientific factors that make this coincidence possible. This approach, which sees wonder in natural causes rather than divine intervention, reflects the same balance found in his comedy: a critical yet playful perspective that serves as a pressure release valve for processing life's profound and absurd aspects. And yes, we laugh a lot!

Tom's Linktree | linktr.ee/tomfell

Highlights:

09:11 Truth in Comedy: The Power of Humor

29:58 Existential Themes in Comedy

42:16 Navigating Drug Culture and Personal Choices

53:18 The Intersection of Science and Spirituality

01:05:10 Spirituality Beyond Religion: Personal Revelations

Dan's New Substack | Religion on the Mind

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Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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The You Have Permission team of Dan Koch, Josh Gilbert and Joy Vetterlein sit down to process the election a day later. Dan puts on his therapy hat and offers some general coping mechanisms and how to deal with the catastrophizing thoughts blue voters might have around a Trump presidency. We also discuss listener comments and questions, and talk through what we’re learning and taking away from the experience. Listen if you could use some friends to process with and find a bit of hope, but skip this one if you’re looking for detailed political analysis or if you just need to stay in your anger a little longer.

Sharon McMahon's Podcast | Here's Where It Gets Interesting

Robert Wright's Election Video | Nervous About the Election? Watch This.

The NonZero Substack | NonZero Newsletter

Dan's New Substack | Religion on the Mind

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Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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Take a break from election coverage and enjoy this thoughtful conversation with Brandan Robertson, a pastor in Queens, NY, about "Christian agnosticism" and navigating faith with intellectual honesty. We explore how embracing uncertainty about religious claims can actually deepen rather than diminish faith, moving beyond the rigid certainty of our evangelical backgrounds toward a more nuanced approach. We share our experiences of finding value in Christian traditions while holding space for doubt, and discuss how this approach resonates with both religious and non-religious people alike. The conversation expands to cover selective Christianity, religious commitment, trends in progressive faith communities, and even Joel Osteen's effective use of simple religious messaging. It’s a refreshing perspective on how faith can remain relevant and authentic in an increasingly complex world!

Brandon's Website | brandanrobertson.com

Highlights:

02:43 Christian Agnosticism: Embracing Mystery and Wonder

25:51 The Limits of Human Knowledge and Religious Pragmatism

33:08 The Tension Between Deconstruction and Faith

54:11 Challenges in Building Lasting Change in Progressive Religious Movements

Dan's New Substack | Religion on the Mind

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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Today I'm joined by frequent podcast collaborators Josh Gilbert and Kristen Tideman to discuss "The Iron Claw" (2023), a film that chronicles the tragic story of the Von Erich wrestling family during the territorial wrestling era of the 1980s. At its core, the film explores how patriarch Fritz Von Erich projects his unrealized wrestling ambitions onto his sons through conditional love and emotional suppression while his sons form intense bonds supporting each other through their shared pursuit of wrestling excellence. We share our personal reactions to the film's heavy themes and explore our own boundaries with difficult content. For our Patron-only segment, we dive deep into the film's haunting afterlife scene, leading to vulnerable conversations about faith, mortality, family tragedy, and questions of legacy. I even talk about crying! Like all impactful films, "The Iron Claw" opened up avenues of conversation we might not have reached otherwise, revealing how this portrait of a family trapped in cycles of ambition, loyalty, and tragedy resonates with our own experiences.

Highlights:

12:40 Personal Reflections on Film and Emotional Impact

20:05 The Intersection of Film and Personal Experience

30:12 The Movie Method: A Therapeutic Approach to Film

Movie | The Iron Claw

Episode with Jenny Hamelton | Using Movies in Therapy (#265)

Jenny's Website | jennyhamiltoncounselling.wordpress.com

The Movies Could Be Good For You Article | https://theconversation.com/watching-movies-could-be-good-for-your-mental-health-214325

Dan's New Substack | Religion on the Mind

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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Join Dan Koch and Joy Vetterlein for another "After Hours" episode of You Have Permission as they dive into Netflix's hit series "Nobody Wants This." While a rom-com might seem like an unexpected choice for YHP, this show about an agnostic podcaster (Kristen Bell) falling for a progressive rabbi (Adam Brody) offers surprisingly rich material for exploring faith, doubt, and relationships. Dan and Joy unpack several fascinating themes from the first episode: the Jewish approach to wrestling with religious uncertainty, refreshingly honest relationship dynamics that buck typical rom-com tropes, the complex dynamics of religious authority and spiritual interpretation, and thoughtful discussion of how Jewish audiences are receiving the show's cultural portrayal. While lighter than our usual fare, this episode demonstrates how pop culture can open doors to deeper conversations about faith, psychology, and human connection. Let us know if you'd like to see more episodes in this casual evening format and/or more discussion of current shows and movies!

Highlights

15:05 Cultural Reflections on Judaism and Christianity

19:58 Faith, Doubt, and Spirituality in Relationships

30:12 Attachment Theory and Relationship Patterns

52:47 Cultural Stereotypes in Relationships

01:02:14 Near-Death Experiences and Life Changes

Joy's Website | joyvetterlein.com

The Attachment-Based Romance Video Dan Mentions | Why We Pick Difficult Partners

Dan's New Substack | Religion on the Mind

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

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Musician Jayne Sugg joins the podcast to discuss her journey through faith deconstruction and its profound impact on her creative process. Raised in a charismatic, Pentecostal church where her family led worship, Jayne's faith and music were deeply intertwined from a young age. This deconstruction process resulted in a significant creative crisis as Jayne struggled to find authentic artistic expression outside the familiar framework of worship music. Her story illustrates the deep connection between belief systems and artistic expression, and how personal crises can catalyze artistic growth. Tune in to hear how Jayne ultimately rediscovered her musical voice by exploring new genres and perspectives.

Jayne Sugg | Spotify

Jayne's Website | jaynesugg.com

Chapters:

05:21 Navigating Post-Evangelical Christian Artistry

33:27 Deconstruction in Worship Music

53:24 Nurturing Creativity in Religious Communities

01:10:30 The Impact of Disillusionment on Musical Development

01:31:05 Cultural Influences on Musical Expression

Dan's new Substack | Religion on the Mind

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___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

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In this special "after hours" episode of "You Have Permission," Dan and his old friend Lindsay share their biggest regrets from evangelical purity culture. They explore how this nonbiblical but influential sexual ethic affected both men and women during adolescence, acknowledging that women bore the brunt of its impact. Dan and Lindsay reminisce about cringeworthy memories, like bizarre sex ed object lessons and being used as "purity examples" in youth group. They discuss how purity culture shaped their limited sex education and filtered their understanding of sexuality and relationships. The conversation touches on the lasting effects of purity culture on mental health, physical well-being, and current relationships. The first half of this more personal and casual episode is available for free, with the deeper, more candid discussion reserved for Patrons.

Lindsay's Website | www.stranniganandsons.com

Lindsay on Instagram | @lindsaystrannigan

Episode #187 with Lindsay | Walk Me Through: Jesus Movement Music '67-'79 (Part 1)

Highlights

05:55 Personal Regrets and Experiences

12:08 The Impact of Purity Culture on Relationships

18:09 Sex Education and Its Gaps

23:55 Navigating Sexuality and Shame

35:50 Health Consequences of Purity Culture

Dan's new Substack | Religion on the Mind

___________________________________________

Get Tickets for the PREGAME EVENT before Theology Beer Camp!

Get Tickets for Theology Beer Camp 2024

Use Code ReturnofYHP for $50 off your ticket!

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

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This is a Patreon Preview | *The exclusive half starts around the 53 min mark*

In this special episode, Dan brings together his "Big Five" friends—Tripp Fuller, Myron Penner, Sarah Concepcion, and Sarah Lane Ritchie—to playfully mock and critically examine the Enneagram. Dan introduces the "Danneagram," an AI-generated personality system, sparking a lively discussion that oscillates between humorous riffs on personality typing and serious critiques. The group debates the value of such systems, even if not scientifically valid, and covers other topics like birth order, religious anthropology, and even "Lord of the Rings" characters. Join in for a thought-provoking and entertaining dive into the allure and limitations of personality assessments.

Previous Enneagram Episodes:

Ep #101 | Is the Enneagram Real?

Ep #161 | The Enneagram Doesn't Hold Up

Dan's new Substack | Religion on the Mind

___________________________________________

Get Tickets for the PREGAME EVENT before Theology Beer Camp!

Get Tickets for Theology Beer Camp 2024

Use Code ReturnofYHP for $50 off your ticket!

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

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Dr. Kirk Honda of Psychology in Seattle returns to discuss the intersection of psychology and popular media. We explore the world of reality TV through a psychological lens, where Dr. Honda makes a compelling case for using these shows as tools for psychoeducation and cultural insight. According to him, even heavily edited content can serve as a springboard for discussing broader psychological concepts. From relationship dynamics in "Love is Blind" to personality assessments discussed during the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard trial, we examine how popular culture can be leveraged to increase psychological literacy among the public. This conversation offers a fresh perspective on the potential of reality TV as a vehicle for understanding human behavior and mental health, demonstrating how clinicians and educators can engage thoughtfully with popular media to foster greater psychological awareness.

Highlights

02:56 The Role of Movies in Personal Development

11:55 The Intersection of Therapy and Media Representation

23:52 The Ethics of Reality TV and Therapy

Previous Episode with Kirk:

Episode 88 | Secular Therapy's Religion Blind Spot

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-have-permission/id1448000113?i=1000491974985

Kirk's Past Episodes:

Kirk's Podcast | Psychology In Seattle Podcast

Kirk's YouTube Channel | Psychology in Seattle

Psychology In Seattle Website | psychologyinseattle.com

Dan's new Substack | Religion on the Mind

___________________________________________

Get Tickets for the PREGAME EVENT before Theology Beer Camp!

Get Tickets for Theology Beer Camp 2024

Use Code ReturnofYHP for $50 off your ticket!

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com

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In this special episode, Dan brings together his "Big Five" friends—Tripp Fuller, Myron Penner, Sarah Concepcion, and Sarah Lane Ritchie—to playfully mock and critically examine the Enneagram. Dan introduces the "Danneagram," an AI-generated personality system, sparking a lively discussion that oscillates between humorous riffs on personality typing and serious critiques. The group debates the value of such systems, even if not scientifically valid, and covers other topics like birth order, religious anthropology, and even "Lord of the Rings" characters. Join in for a thought-provoking and entertaining dive into the allure and limitations of personality assessments.

Previous Enneagram Episodes:

Ep #101 | Is the Enneagram Real?

Ep #161 | The Enneagram Doesn't Hold Up

Dan's new Substack | Religion on the Mind

___________________________________________

Get Tickets for the PREGAME EVENT before Theology Beer Camp!

Get Tickets for Theology Beer Camp 2024

Use Code ReturnofYHP for $50 off your ticket!

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com

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In this week's episode, I sit down with Katelyn Dixon and Sarah Almodovar, co-hosts of the Still Christian podcast, for another installment in my Still Christian series. We explore our diverse religious backgrounds and experiences questioning faith, from Katie's "dark night of the soul" to Sarah's period of rebellion in New York City. We also discussed the idea of "undeniable" spiritual experiences. Drawing from my philosophy background, I propose a more nuanced approach to these experiences, suggesting we treat them as important data points in our spiritual lives rather than irrefutable proof. While our approaches to faith differ — with Katie and Sarah emphasizing personal, subjective experiences and my leaning towards a more analytical view — this conversation showcases the presence of diversity within Christian spirituality and the value of open, engaging dialogue about faith.

In the patron-only second half of the episode, we dive deeper into the role of suffering in faith, different approaches to religion, the interplay between art and faith, and our shared experience of hosting podcasts about Christianity in contemporary contexts. Join or log on to your Patreon account to hear the full, ad-free version of this episode.

Highlights

09:08 Dark Nights of the Soul

11:57 Questioning Christian Identity

14:49 Experiences of God's Presence

17:53 Spiritual Experiences and Interpretation

20:48 The Intersection of Faith and Modern Life

Katelyn's Website and Writing Page | katelynjdixon.com

Dan's new Substack | Religion on the Mind

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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John and Linn Haralson discuss their journey from complementarianism to egalitarianism regarding women in ministry. As long-time members of their church community, I've witnessed their progression firsthand, making this behind-the-scenes look particularly interesting. We explore the complexities of changing deeply held beliefs within a marriage and church leadership context. Lynn shares how events like the Charleston massacre in 2016 catalyzed her shift in perspective, while John describes his more gradual journey, influenced by leaving the PCA and reading William Witt's "Icons of Christ." The couple candidly discussed their "don't ask, don't tell" period and the personal costs of their former beliefs. We also delve into the challenges of guiding a congregation through such a significant doctrinal change, including the anxiety preceding the church vote and the intentional process of education and discussion. Their story illuminates how changing one's mind on theological issues is a deeply personal process affecting relationships, community dynamics, and individual spiritual journeys.

Highlights:

05:14 Different Perspectives on Gender Roles

19:42 The Cost of Changing Beliefs

35:24 Living with Complementarianism within Marriage

59:03 Validating Grief and Loss within Complementarian Beliefs

John and Linn's Church | graceseattle.org

Dan's new Substack | Religion on the Mind

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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In this episode, I welcomed back Dr. Pam Ebstyne King to discuss her framework of six facets for spiritual health. We focused on "transcendence and spirituality," where Pam expanded on Dr. Lisa Miller's definition to include not just experiencing something beyond oneself, but also responding to it. This resonated deeply with me, prompting thoughts on evolving my two-item model of spirituality and religiosity into a three-item model including transcendence. Pam's research on "spiritual exemplars" illustrated how individuals allow transcendent experiences to shape their identity, beliefs, and actions. This conversation sparked ideas about a more holistic model of spiritual life, acknowledging the initial experience of transcendence, the personal spiritual journey, and the communal religious practices that often follow. 

Highlights

09:13 Six Facets of Spiritual Health

19:30 Transcendence and Spirituality

23:13 Habits and Rhythms

25:59 Relationships and Community

30:45 Vocation and Purpose

35:49 Identity and Narrative

41:49 Ethics and Virtues

Pam's Thrive Center | thethrivecenter.org

Pam's Podcast | With & For

Past YHP Episode with Pam King:

#129 | Religion, Virtue & Human Thriving

Dan's new Substack | Religion on the Mind

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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In the second episode of our series of conversations with comedians about religion and spirituality, comedian Maggie Lally joined me to share her genuinely unique religious experiences and how they inform her comedy and worldview. 

From a sheltered Catholic upbringing by a former Jesuit priest to becoming a “teen witch” in adolescence, Maggie was raised with a sense of spiritual openness that she still carries with her today. We discussed all the various therapeutic approaches she has experienced (including one who inspired a comedy bit about “overly empathetic white female therapists”) and connected on the practice of centering prayer.

Highlights

06:33 The Journey of Maggie's Father: From Jesuit to Family Man

36:33 The Impact of Teenage Witchcraft

43:38 The Role of Therapy and Spiritual Direction

50:31 Cultivating a Meditation Practice

01:00:23 Exploring Spirituality and Religion

Maggie's Linktree

Dan's new Substack | Religion on the Mind

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In this follow-up to our discussion on the Apostle's Creed, Thomas Jay Oord and I delve into the Nicene Creed, examining its history, language, and theology through a progressive Christian lens. We grapple with complex concepts like the Trinity, the nature of Christ, and the Holy Spirit, questioning traditional interpretations and exploring how our diverse backgrounds shape our understanding of these ideas. While acknowledging the historical significance of the Creed, we also confront the challenge of interpreting ancient texts in a modern context. Our conversation highlights the tension between appreciating theological tradition and prioritizing practical expressions of faith that address contemporary issues. Ultimately, we reflect on the value of critically engaging with our religious heritage to cultivate a faith that is both historically grounded and relevant to today's world.

Highlights

00:00 Introduction and Recap of Previous Episode

03:14 The Role of Theology: Faith Seeking Understanding

11:50 The Limitations of Language in Theological Discourse

19:10 Decoding the Language of the Nicene Creed

23:57 The Tension Between Theological Precision and Language

Tom's Previous Episode list:

#7 | To Change Your Mind: Healing Prayer

#23 | To Be a Postmodern Christian

#42 | Is the "Supernatural" Actually Just Natural?

Matthew Novenson Episode on "Pneuma:

#163 | Apocalyptic Expectations, the Resurrection & More

Dan's new Substack | Religion on the Mind

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In this first part of our discussion, Thomas Jay Oord and I take a deep dive into the Apostle’s Creed, exploring its origins, language, and theology through a progressive Christian lens. We examine foundational beliefs about God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, questioning traditional interpretations and considering how our experiences and backgrounds influence our understanding of these core tenets of faith. As we navigate the historical significance of the Creed, we also grapple with the challenge of applying these ancient declarations to a modern, evolving faith context. Our conversation reflects the ongoing tension between honoring theological tradition and pursuing a faith that resonates with contemporary concerns. Ultimately, we emphasize the importance of critically engaging with our religious heritage to cultivate a faith that is both deeply rooted in history and responsive to the realities of today’s world.

Highlights:

03:15 Discussion on the Apostles Creed

13:06 Challenges and Personal Responses to the Creeds

23:47 Interpreting the Phrase 'Believe in Jesus Christ'

28:02 Understanding the Uniqueness of Jesus

34:20 Exploring the Concepts of 'Descended to the Dead' and 'Resurrection'

40:33 The Significance of the Resurrection in Christianity

52:26 Exploring the Possibility of Mass Experiences

56:45 Continuation of Subjective Experience Beyond Death

Tom's Previous Episode list:

#7 | To Change Your Mind: Healing Prayer

#23 | To Be a Postmodern Christian

#42 | Is the "Supernatural" Actually Just Natural?

Matthew Novenson Episode on "Pneuma:

#163 | Apocalyptic Expectations, the Resurrection & More

Dan's new Substack | Religion on the Mind

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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In this inaugural episode of the new "God Songs AKA Songs in the Key of G-O-D" series, Dan Koch and fellow musician (and returning guest) Tyson Motsenbocker explore spiritually significant songs that aren't overtly religious. Dan shares his encounter with Jim James of My Morning Jacket and delves into James' song "Believe (Nobody Knows)," examining how it expresses belief amidst uncertainty. The conversation weaves through topics like evangelical "friendship evangelism," the psychological impact of absolutist beliefs, and the concept of "infinity withdrawal." Dan and Tyson discuss connections between James' music and Transcendental Meditation, touching on TM-inspired songs by The Beatles, Donovan, and the Beach Boys. This wide-ranging discussion explores the intersection of spirituality, culture, and art, grappling with deep questions about belief, community, and the human need for meaning, while contrasting ascetic traditions with worldly expressions of spirituality.

Highlights:

06:44 Analyzing 'Believe (Nobody Knows)' by My Morning Jacket

23:11 The Nuances And Limits Of Faith And Belief

33:26 The Influence of Transcendental Meditation on Popular Music

Tyson on Instagram

Where the Waves Turn Back Book

Tyson's Website

Dan's new Substack | Religion on the Mind

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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In this episode, I sit down with previous-guest-turned-colleague Joy Vetterlein to explore the intricate relationship between disgust psychology, Christian faith, and attitudes towards LGBTQ+ individuals. We discuss how evolutionary disgust mechanisms influence reactions to sexuality, and the challenge of balancing intuitive responses with consciously held values. The conversation delves into personal experiences of conservative Christian upbringing, the importance of integrating mind and intuition, and finding a middle ground through discernment. We examine how disgust psychology affects Christian interactions with LGBTQ+ individuals, questioning whether such reactions are divine guidance or natural responses requiring examination. The episode emphasizes the crucial role of critical thinking and self-reflection in navigating complex moral and social issues, regardless of one's religious beliefs.

Highlights

07:20 The Importance of Discernment in Navigating Beliefs

12:14 Exploring the Psychology of Disgust

21:03 Controversy and Perspectives: The Opening Ceremony of the Olympics

31:28 Disgust as a Physical Reaction

48:08 The Culture War and Disgust Psychology

Dan's new Substack | Religion on the Mind

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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Russell Moore, editor-in-chief of Christianity Today, sat down with me to explore the current state of American Christianity, focusing on the challenges of maintaining relationships across ideological divides in an age of deep political cynicism and polarization. He shared insights on navigating family dynamics in a polarized era, emphasizing the importance of preserving relationships even when agreement seems impossible. We discussed the complexities within the Southern Baptist Convention, including how to interpret news from their annual meetings and the challenges of defining doctrinal boundaries. Russell has a nuanced perspective and I appreciate his ability to critically examine both conservative and progressive tendencies in Christianity.

Chapters

10:46 The Importance of Authenticity

26:41 Navigating Relationships and Acceptance

35:07 The Decline of the Southern Baptist Convention

55:17 Ethical Considerations and Regulations in the Age of AI

01:05:27 The Importance of Balancing Perspectives

russellmoore.com

Russel Moore | Christianity Today

The Russel More Show (Podcast)

Russel's Article on AI | A New Era of AI Is Here, and the Church Is Not Ready

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This month’s Generation Gap Culture Hour focuses on recent political events (perhaps against our better judgement!). We also touch on generational differences in political engagement and dynamics within the Democratic Party. The conversation ends with a discussion about Joe Biden's decision to step down, how we are thinking about him/this decision, and potential implications for the election. 

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Author and researcher Ryan Burge joins me to discuss religious trends in America. Ryan's research reveals a surprising plateau in the growth of religious "nones" over the past five years, even through the COVID-19 period. We explored his upcoming book on the "big church sort," discussing the polarization of American religion into conservative churches and liberal non-religious groups, while moderate and mainline churches rapidly decline. Our conversation touched on the challenges facing mainline Protestantism, the use of political symbols in religious spaces, and the importance of exposing ourselves and our children to diverse viewpoints within religious settings. 

Highlights:

08:12 The Plateau of the Religious 'Nones'

35:10 The Big Church Sort: The Decline of Mainline Protestantism

01:02:36 Exposing Children to Different Views

Ryan's Substack

Ryan's Books:

The Great Dechurching

The Nones

YHP Episodes with Ryan:

Episode #25: "Myths about Religion and Politics in America”

YHP Episode with Josh Porter

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Returning guest and psychologist of religion Daryl Van Tongeren (Hope College) and I discuss his new book "Done: How to Flourish After Leaving Religion,” a book that is also quite helpful for those remaining in faith communities after changing beliefs/deconstructing, etc. We explore the concept of "religious residue": how religion continues to impact the way we think, feel, and act even after leaving faith. We discussed the complexity of deconversion and why leaving faith can be so challenging and time-consuming, especially when finding community. This was a rich and insightful conversation, and will hopefully be encouraging to anyone navigating the tumultuous waters of religious change.

Highlights:

04:16 Difficulties of Leaving Religion

12:11 The Great Disillusionment: Reasons for Leaving Religion/Deconstruction

26:45 Religious Residue and Crafting a New Identity

36:36 Navigating Isolation

55:40 Finding a New Community

Daryl's Book | Done: How to Flourish After Leaving Religion by Darrell Van Tongren

Daryl's Website

Episodes with Daryl:

Episode 195: “You Are Not Your Beliefs”

Episode 177: “The Good of Religion Without the Bad?"

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Matt and Max from Milkless are back! We pick up our conversation on belief and the meaning of life that we started in episode #271.

After exploring the potential downsides of belief without proof (i.e. conspiracy theories) and the psychology behind how and why we believe, we chatted about the meaning of life. We grappled with the nature of meaning itself, expressing both panentheistic views of God and naturalistic explanations of existence. We also talked through how finely-tuned the universe is and debated the validity of intelligent design.

We didn't solve any universal mysteries, but enjoyed a respectful, thought-provoking conversation about the biggest questions of our existence. 

Milkless Podcast

Milkless Podcast on IG

Highlights:

02:56 Belief in a higher power

08:07 Our need for meaning

11:56 Conspiracy theories and conservative religion

19:05 Spirituality with or without religion

25:12 The universe and intelligent design

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I’m kicking off a new series exploring the intersection of comedy, religion, and spirituality!

My first guest is Ryan Erwin, a gay ex-Mormon missionary turned clean comic. We talk about his idyllic Mormon childhood in Utah, his departure from Mormonism and exploration of other faiths, his introduction to comedy, and how he has ultimately found spiritual fulfillment in nature and everyday activities.

I appreciated Ryan’s humor, warmth, and grounded perspective, hearing how he finds meaning outside traditional religious structures, as well as how his comedy can be a vehicle for exploring profound, sometimes uncomfortable truths about faith and identity.

Highlights:

08:37 “Religious Residue”

22:12 The Power of Storytelling

33:18 Leaving Mormonism and Pursuing Comedy

45:03 Finding Spirituality in Nature and the Present Moment

57:06 Living in the Here and Now: Embracing New Experiences

Ryan's Instagram

Ryan's Website

Dry Bar Comedy Specials: Dry Bar Comedy - Ryan Erwin

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When we have spiritual experiences with things like worship music, is that the Holy Spirit moving? Or, as Tim Whitaker (The New Evangelicals) claimed in a viral Instagram meme, is it “just the drums”? Can it be both?

Tim and Sarah Lane Ritchie return to discuss these ideas, Tim’s experiences as a worship drummer, “spiritual technologies” like worship music, the potential harm of conflating these experiences with “God,” the role of such experiences in the life of faith, and more. 

Watch this Episode on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/qMTeohCkEDA

Tim's Viral Drums Reel:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6PhVL6OlDG/?igsh=eDdhZjFoMjI2NjJ1

The New Evangelicals Podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-new-evangelicals-podcast/id1557794865

thenewevangelicals.com

Sarah's Faculty Page:

https://www.templeton.org/team-member/sarah-lane-ritchie-ph-d

Sarah's Twitter:

@slaneritchie

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Tyson Motsenbocker returns to help Dan answer if he is being followed by a handful of AI-generated bot Instagram accounts. Could they be Russians? Why is Avis so interested in her son Jason and “knitting small bees”? Are we in an “uncanny valley” yet with AI content? 

Tyson on Instagram

Where the Waves Turn Back Book

Tyson's Website

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This week I’m joined by co-hosts of the excellent fatherhood-focused Milkless Podcast, Max Valverde and Matt Naylor for another listener-favorite “I Don’t Believe in That God” episode. Max leans towards atheism, finding a personal God unlikely, while Matt feels a pull towards spirituality but questions specific religious claims.

This is actually an episode swap -- so today there is both a new Milkless episode featuring yours truly (in which we discuss the benefits and costs of religion/spirituality in raising kids) AND a You Have Permission episode with the two of them.

A major theme that emerged was the difference between specific truth claims about the nature of reality and God vs. poetic or "theopoetic" framings that resonate as meaningful and promote human flourishing, even if not literally true. We didn't see perfectly eye-to-eye on this, with Matt expressing reservations about believing things for the sake of comfort or convenience rather than evidence. (Of course, I pushed back on what counts as evidence, etc.)

This conversation was SO GOOD that Matt and Max are returning for round 2 in a month or so -- keep your eyes out for that one!

Watch this Episode on YouTube

Milkless Podcast

Milkless Podcast on IG

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Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

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Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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Finally, a long chat with indie Christian musician John Mark McMillan! John Mark started out firmly in the mainstream Christian world but has been gradually exploring more complex and nuanced expressions of faith (and doubt!) through his art. 

We discussed his early life on a Christian commune, what it's like to be a recording artist wrestling with deep questions of faith and doubt, and whether a doubting faith is actually more faithful than one laced with certainty. We got into meaning-making, suffering, and the audacity of hope in an imperfect world. In other words, it was great.

Watch this Episode on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/PcWpzObjGK4

John Mark's Website

John Mark McMillan on Spotify

Resources Mentioned:

Hunting the Divine Fox: An Introduction to the Language of Theology

Viktor Frankl's Book: A Man's Search for Meaning

___________________________________________

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Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

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Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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How many times has someone told you that you have to watch The Chosen, the smash hit TV series depicting the life of Jesus?

My buddy Jeff Martin and I break down season 1, episode 2 & 3, reacting to all manner of interesting details from my own liberal Christian therapist perspective and Jeff’s more moderate Evangelical lens.

We get into:

• Shabbat and Shabbat dinner
• Conversion experiences and their psychological, social, and spiritual aspects
• depiction of Jesus' interactions with children and his characterization

I’m very curious how much appetite there is for continuing with episodes like this, so please check it out and let me know what you think!

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/3ViFnTp7Des

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___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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Sarah McCammon, NPR journalist and author of "The Exvangelicals," shares her journey out of evangelical Christianity, including her pivotal relationship with her non-religious gay grandfather.

We explore how journalism provided Sarah with a space to question and how my work in therapy also demands openness to evidence. We covered the impact of the Trump era on evangelicalism and the earlier Emergent movement led by figures like Rob Bell and Rachel Held Evans.

We delve into the evangelical subculture's "parallel institutions" and their role in fostering distrust of mainstream institutions. Finally, we reflect on our wariness of echo chambers and the value we now place on viewpoint diversity and factual specificity.

Watch this Episode on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/Kl0cr4MZaBI

Sarah’s Book “The Exvangelicals: Loving, Living, and Leaving the White Evangelical Church”:

https://www.amazon.com/Exvangelicals-Loving-Living-Leaving-Evangelical/dp/1250284473

Sarah’s Substack

Depolarize! Podcast

Reconstruct Podcast

___________________________________________

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___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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After kicking things off with our usual game of "Bar, Bank, Church or Dispensary?” and “Ways we are becoming our dads” segments, I introduced a new segment focused on funny Hard Times headlines.

Tony recalled his recent time in Rome and reflected on the passing of theologian Jurgen Moltmann. This led into a conversation about Israel and the war in Gaza, and all three of us gave our thoughts on the conflict.

Finally, I brought forward the idea of seeing Christianity as a story in which we find ourselves, and we compared it with other meta-narratives competing for our attention and loyalty.

Watch this Episode on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/O27kTZyxVcU

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Tony's Substack on Jürgen Moltmann

Movie: God On Trial

Kristen Ashley's Book: Knight

___________________________________________

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Use Code ReturnofYHP for $50 off your ticket!

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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Today’s episode is a thoughtful conversation with my friend Josh Patterson of the (Re)Thinking Faith Podcast about his evolving relationship with Christianity. No longer a pastor, he sometimes struggles to articulate theological concepts that once came easily. Practices that used to nourish his soul now give him pause, and he wonders if his reduced engagement with Christian community and spiritual disciplines has contributed to this sense of distance.

Despite this, Josh still experiences spontaneous moments of prayer, gratitude, and spiritual connection. He values embodied spiritual experiences over mere intellectual agreement with doctrines. The theological issues that once consumed him, such as Hell and atonement theories, have been overshadowed by more fundamental metaphysical and philosophical questions. He resonates with poetic and metaphorical approaches to theology (AKA “theopoetics”) that allow religious language to gesture toward profound truths and experiences without collapsing into rigid literalism.

Watch this Episode on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/BuySOBvUOhY

Josh's Podcast "Rethinking Faith":

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rethinking-faith/id1438696524

___________________________________________

Get Tickets for Theology Beer Camp 2024

Use Code ReturnofYHP for $50 off your ticket!

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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In this mid-week episode (full version is available on Patreon!) I am joined by Jenny Hamilton, a licensed therapist and senior lecturer at the University of Lincoln in the UK, talking about her peer-reviewed movie therapy method.

We discussed how films can provide a unique form of escapism while also helping foster empathy by allowing viewers to experience the world through someone else's perspective. Jenny emphasized the importance of tailoring selections to each individual client's interests, issues, and comfort level. We also touched on the value of using well-known films as a common reference point, which can help build rapport and facilitate deeper conversations.

Should I find a guest or two who wants to try out the MOVIE Method, perhaps for a Patreon episode? We would watch a well-known movie and then talk through some journaling/response “homework” based on Jenny’s approach? Let me know! 

Jenny's Website:

https://jennyhamiltoncounselling.wordpress.com/

Jenny's Podcast "The Movie Method":

https://open.spotify.com/show/3hx4QmEz4LfQOoxqScwEU8?si=a4c8760608624958

The conversation article: https://theconversation.com/watching-movies-could-be-good-for-your-mental-health-214325

Jenny's Twitter @JennyHa0216

___________________________________________

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Use Code ReturnofYHP for $50 off your ticket!

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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This week I had the pleasure of speaking with Matt Halstead about his new book “The End of the World as You Know It” which focuses on End Times prophecies and apocalyptic literature. We touched on everything from the psychological drives behind our fascination with the future to the importance of maintaining a questioning mindset in matters of faith.

We kicked things off by acknowledging the trauma and anxiety that can often accompany these teachings, especially for those who grew up in conservative evangelical circles. Matt shared how he was never encouraged to ask critical questions about these topics but rather was expected to simply accept what he was told. 

We also got into the history of apocalyptic literature and how it has been interpreted throughout the centuries. Matt pointed out that these texts were originally written from the perspective of oppressed groups, not the privileged empires of the day. 

Matt’s Book “The End of the World as You Know It”: 

https://www.amazon.com/End-World-You-Know-Really/dp/1683597125

Matt’s Faculty Page:

https://eternity.edu/meet-dr-halsted/

Revelation Lectures by Craig S. Keener:

https://masterlectures.zondervanacademic.com/revelation-craig-s-keener

___________________________________________

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Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

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Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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** Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/5U0kztmTnxk

In response to a listener suggestion, as well as having enjoyed Bonnie Kristian's recent newsletter on the topic, I looked into the recent Harrison Butker commencement address controversy. I had a few thoughts!

I talk briefly about the situation, how I largely think of it in terms of protected religious speech, more progressive options within Christianity, the good questions raised by conservative counter-reactions in support of Butker and what one such reaction gets quite wrong, and some insights from the "cultural competency" world of psychotherapy that I think are applicable.

Bonnie's newsletter: https://bonniekristian.substack.com/p/that-commencement-speech-didnt-need?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=405918&post_id=144821513&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=false&r=42udl&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

James Martin, SJ: https://www.americamagazine.org/voices/james-martin-sj

gaychurch.org

ParentData on daycare: https://parentdata.org/day-care-bad-children/

___________________________________________

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Use Code ReturnofYHP for $50 off your ticket!

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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You know her and love her — my friend and recurring guest Kristen Tideman joined me this week for another listener-powered Q&A session!

We recommended voices outside Christianity who provide thoughtful commentary on religion and culture, considered why some Christians seem to have a gentle certainty in their faith while others wrestle with doubt, recommended resources for those interested in psychology but not necessarily at a graduate school level, and wrapped with our Q&A tradition, “podcasts someone else should start.”

I always look forward to bringing Kristen back for these episodes, so please continue to send in your questions and feedback!

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/ZWEDLrjwiAA

Kristen & Sarey’s Website:

https://www.tidycocreative.com/

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

“The Spiral Staircase: My Climb Out of Darkness” Book by Karen Armstrong:

https://www.amazon.com/Spiral-Staircase-Climb-Out-Darkness/dp/0385721277

“A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam”:

https://www.amazon.com/History-God-000-Year-Judaism-Christianity/dp/0345384563

“Nonzero: The Logic of Human Destiny” Book by Robert Wright:

https://www.amazon.com/Nonzero-Robert-Wright-audiobook/dp/B003VXOYU0/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.W5VbJEd_C7ARelFjPSPdn3yzWFEz_e8NNfRIuUQAVYQiGo7URK4okOWLCcU-5qKRkbZWePmrNEF5UMu2Bsnz0zVH2G-PDpc_rM3QD3GaET1B7YIFlklFaTi9a-8eJlmCGiwutLTJ5mzRIKor8tBFjjIl4mgdq9ixog65RS29IuP6zMeEftqYoSnZP90f73gmgICZuXNiRBhMwUxuvgP76n0gRWYNnZ8v5a3Rb0BlR7I.lzOXxi7UQfAmzXEGnSvr1HwJpM3ZqgRzjKOlcv4A9dI&dib_tag=se&hvadid=695122461575&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9060341&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=9167534309706362485&hvtargid=kwd-389232807553&hydadcr=3376_13743879&keywords=nonzero+book&qid=1716136609&sr=8-1

Ezra Klein Show Episode with George Saunders:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-george-saunders.html

“The Undoing Project: A Friendship That Changed Our Minds” Book by Michael Lewis:

https://www.amazon.com/The-Undoing-Project-Michael-Lewis-audiobook/dp/B01KBM82M4/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.cvym2lRDIPNob6LgRNDHPOZobL47bYhXCus_FyflE7PaLtByydXWtl_51cpuc2ZxMkfrpUp-o6hKcSIUSzkhknTjMdXCue97elz4LG7AvzJE6OzgVNhyksDwdbqAHnyKUGSJurbTFXxpO5dYRVt9zYkObJ4dX6m3od1-udbHCQKuj0meg8W0G2_KIsoh8nL3_2dKfbIpK9IM6iT-HVNoUcRiH8XiWFaxn3IwyB8MjH0.4vPkZtU2aPl5IqVdSPK_-_EKr3NNIbwGQh97XlkI5NE&dib_tag=se&hvadid=409935120645&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9060341&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8779447192951884940&hvtargid=kwd-409536905666&hydadcr=22597_11320627&keywords=%27the+undoing+project%27+by+michael+lewis&qid=1716136308&sr=8-1

“Thinking Fast and Slow” Book by Daniel Kahneman:

https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-and-Slow-audiobook/dp/B005Z9GAJG/ref=sr_1_1?crid=W7JLD65U1X9F&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.J9E3G6r9vjT1ToBWoQvd_jo79NsGeWfMZRwA2IF1bWJJecsgTr9qjHdmX1IlwlqR1EG-cf0ADeQL21OlMnbOLgifLEj4VZDGqBWLpB_c7vGXt0QZa6bMPAg8Za2CbpRwWjTQt0HE4RDRKSgN2snnYa3A8BfMmIludhAdWWNwsnCp6ta6bw8UEcWSv40VpjFqBKBEnqkIouZAVHf-HVvQ6-IooQcNBDgIcj5APXDkih0.xp5f73ny4T0lA9HxrBZfR5AkTsDReliAZ7g4fWtc_YQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=thinking+fast+and+slow&qid=1716136287&sprefix=thinking+fast+%2Caps%2C128&sr=8-1

Freakonomics Show “No Stupid Questions”:

https://freakonomics.com/series/nsq/

Radio Lab’s Podcast “The Queen of Dying”:

https://radiolab.org/podcast/queen-dying

___________________________________________

Get Tickets for Theology Beer Camp 2024

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___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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How many times has someone told you that you have to watch The Chosen, the smash hit TV series depicting the life of Jesus?

My buddy Jeff Martin and I break down season 1 episode 1, reacting to all manner of interesting details from my own liberal Christian therapist perspective and Jeff’s more moderate Evangelical lens.

We get into psychology, Biblical studies, theology, history, and even some parenting territory.

I’m very curious how much appetite there is for continuing with episodes like this, so please check it out and let me know what you think!

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/6091jNfI8mc

___________________________________________

Get Tickets for Theology Beer Camp 2024

Use Code ReturnofYHP for $50 off your ticket!

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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My guest this week is Lauren Auer, a licensed counselor specializing in religious trauma. She grew up in the evangelical world and initially opened her practice with a faith-based approach (hence the name Steadfast Counseling) but found herself questioning her own beliefs as she witnessed concerning changes in her church community and started receiving a lot of religious trauma cases in her practice, despite not explicitly advertising this specialty.

We discussed the overt and more subtle forms of religious trauma (abuse is the thing that happens to you, while trauma is what happens inside you). many people are "the frog in the pot" from a young age, accustomed to certain behaviors and beliefs within their religious communities. This normalization can make it difficult to recognize when something is amiss or causing harm. Fear of questioning or deviating from the prescribed path often keeps individuals trapped in a state of confusion and self-doubt.

While Lauren is currently only able to see clients in Illinois, there are resources available, such as the Reclamation Collective directory, a geographically organized list of therapists who self-identify as having expertise in working with religious trauma.

My own Spiritual Harm and Abuse Scale -- a free-to-use clinical screener for therapists -- and a condensed research handout on spiritual abuse, are both freely available on dankochwords.com

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/rnZnu1VnGvo

Lauren's Website:

https://steadfastcounseling.com/

Follow Lauren on Instagram -- @steadfastcounseling

Find Clinicians Who Deal with Religious Trauma:

reclamationcollective.com

____________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

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After kicking things off with our usual game of "Bar, Bank, Church or Dispensary?” and “Ways we are becoming our dads” segments, we talked about Josh and Tony's work on the recently concluded Emerged podcast, an ambitious 10-episode series examining the Emerging Church movement. 

We debated the semantics and cultural implications of the "California sober" lifestyle and whether it really counts as “sober,” getting into the healthcare differences between so-called “abstinence” and “harm reduction” approaches to substance use.

Tony told us about his speaking engagements at two "post-Christian spiritual communities" in Grand Rapids, Michigan. To close out, we had a spirited dialogue sparked by Josh's experience caring for his four-year-old nephew for a day, which included painting their nails in matching rainbow colors.

Next month, I'll be coming in hot with some reasons I am feeling hopeful about the future of mainline liberal Protestantism, which Tony will do his best to abuse me of! But that’s the fun of these GGCH episode, right?

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/DEDU2b-cFZo

Tony's Website:

https://reverendhunter.com/

____________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

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This week, I sat down with Katelyn Beaty and Roxanne Stone, the fantastic hosts of the Saved by the City podcast. I asked them for their take on the "masculinity crisis" some have described in our cultural moment. From their experiences dating in New York City to their observations about the dearth of male role models in many kids' lives, they painted a picture of the loneliness, frustration and loss of purpose afflicting a lot of guys these days. 

Many traditionally male-coded traits and roles have been culturally devalued in recent decades in a way that has left a lot of men feeling adrift. Katelyn made the point that while working for gender parity in leadership is important, hyper-focusing on metrics like representation in the Fortune 500 C-suites overlooks a lot of other elements of human flourishing. Roxanne noted that we still have not had a society-wide conversation about redefining success and valorizing things like teaching, caretaking, and community-building that have historically been relegated to the feminine sphere.

Katelyn and Roxanne were emphatic that women have a huge stake in helping stem this crisis, even if their first instinct may be an exasperated "Haven't men had their day in the sun long enough?" As Katelyn put it, men's issues are human issues, and in the long run, the genders rise and fall together. Lonely, angry, purposeless men are more likely to lash out in anti-social ways that endanger everyone.

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/GPGGTdTEhYw

Previous Episode "Christianity Today Staffers Katelyn Beaty and Roxanne Stone":

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-have-permission/id1448000113?i=1000556178804

____________________________________

REGISTER for THEOLOGY BEER CAMP:

https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/

YHP use code "RETURNOFYHP" for $25 off your ticket!

____________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

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The spiritual education of children can be daunting, especially when parents have more questions about God than answers. Does this necessarily lead to a dead end, or are there tools available when we have very little “bedrock” on which to stand?

Meredith Anne Miller feels that mainstream Christian children's education focuses too heavily on making kids obedient, rather than inviting exploration. Meredith advocates for an approach centered on wonder, curiosity, and relationship -- sharing about God's character and love while making ample space for kids' questions, doubts, and personal journeys.

We also respond to a listener question about specific issues with the Lord’s Prayer as a standard family/bedtime option.

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/19GZZaSYZwU

Meredith’s Substack:

https://meredithannemiller.substack.com/

Other YHP Episodes around Raising Kids:

#174 Meredith Miller - “Helping Kids Know God in Healthy Ways”:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-have-permission/id1448000113?i=1000594695988

#166 Bekah McNeil - “Love & Perfectionism in Raising Kids”:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-have-permission/id1448000113?i=1000582889496

____________________________________

REGISTER for THEOLOGY BEER CAMP:

https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/

YHP use code "RETURNOFYHP" for $25 off your ticket!

____________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com

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I was joined by editor, podcaster, and novelist Jason Kirk to discuss how he put his Evangelical upbringing — barely distinguishable from my own — into his recent novel Hell Is A World Without You. We also discussed the power of storytelling to capture the overlap of complex ideas, fear of Hell, queer affirmation, Dune, and more. 

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/69-5jPEmrBE

Jason’s Book “ Hell Is a World Without You”: https://www.amazon.com/Hell-World-Without-Jason-Kirk/dp/1735492647

https://www.jasonkirk.fyi/p/novel

“Pretty Good Vibrations” Episode mentioned - Further Seems Forever Deep Dive:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pretty-good-vibrations/id1652779250?i=1000651894374

___________________

REGISTER for THEOLOGY BEER CAMP:

https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/

YHP use code "RETURNOFYHP" for $25 off your ticket!

____________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com

YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98

Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html

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Artwork by sprungle.co/

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On this week’s episode, I spoke with Elias Dummer, a musician, marketer, and former singer-songwriter of the Canadian Christian rock band The City Harmonic. We talked about the power and potential of contemporary worship music, exploring its role as a "spiritual technology" and its ability to unite people across various divisions -- class, race, theology, etc. And yes, in case you are wondering, I had to set aside my own personal distaste for Contemporary Christian Music and worship music, but I was happy to do so, all in the name of science, of course!

Elias shared his unique background, coming from an ecumenical, missional context rather than a typical megachurch setting. I liked how this challenged common assumptions about contemporary worship music and its association with private piety and white Evangelical tribalism.

We delved into the research Elias and others are doing about worship music, touching on concepts like Emile Durkheim’s collective effervescence and the ability of music to manipulate emotions. Acknowledging the power that worship leaders hold can help them use this influence responsibly. We agreed that being transparent about the mechanisms at play can help protect people from potential harm and abuse.

Dan’s old band “Pacific Gold”:

https://open.spotify.com/artist/5JiCHmso7KrIrNdhjRuElw?si=DOHu-J1wTyeQ6Rh7ET565g

Elias’s Band “The City Harmonic” on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/artist/6qAVoMGl7omcu0RhX1B3fm?si=XTVkEntjSyuMSDLM1zjNlw

The City Harmonic’s “Manifesto” on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/track/5PsxiztPCYZUcEkXmYSx8Q?si=f921612d70464c32

Elias’ IG @eliasdummer

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/7D-lyxdwDQs

____________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com

YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98

Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html

Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/

Artwork by sprungle.co/

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