The DSR Network

Author Craig Whitlock talks with Jeff Stein about US intelligence’s place in 20 years of lies and deception in Afghanistan, and Jeanne Meserve interviews Coast Guard Commandant Karl Schultz about a terror alert for the 9/11 anniversary.

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A lot of books have been written about Donald Trump and the Trump years president. Few have evoked the almost surreal atmosphere of those years as well as "I Alone Can Fix It," the history of the last year of the administration from Washington Post reporters Carol Leonnig and Philip Rucker. We sit down with Carol Leonnig to discuss the book and what it has led her to conclude about the former president, those around him, their party and the state of American politics.

Don't miss it.

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It has been difficult to have a serious, balanced conversation about what the U.S. and this administration has done right in managing the exit from Afghanistan and what we have done wrong. That is a problem that has plagued the U.S. for the entire 20 year period we have conducted the war and, in fact, it may be one of the reasons the outcome to that conflict has been so unsatisfactory. Nonetheless, on this episode we try to cover a range of views in a thoughtful and respectful way. Our guests are Max Boot of the Council on Foreign Relations, Stephen Wertheim of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and Rosa Brooks of Georgetown University Law School. Please join us. 

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The reason the crowds thronging the outskirts of the airport in Kabul were so large was in part due to a concerted effort--against the advice of many in his administration--by former President Trump and his aide Stephen Miller to block our Afghan allies (like allies in Iraq) from entering the United States. They shut down relevant visa programs. They created obstacle after obstacle. And they did so after being warned that such actions would put interpreters and others who assisted us at risk. That is the shocking fact revealed by former Trump official Olivia Troye in a special episode of Deep State Radio. Troye is joined in this episode by former top Obama White House official Dr. Kavita Patel and by Ryan Goodman of Just Security and NYU Law School. Don't miss it.

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Top former CIA operations official William Murray talks with Jeanne Meserve about the loss of the agency's spy base in Kabul, while Africa expert Jacob Zenn assesses the impact of the Taliban-Al Qaeda triumph on militants across the continent, with Jeff Stein.

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An episode in which we bring to life the debate that even the best of friends can have over the conduct of recent events in Afghanistan, their likely origins, and their likely consequences. Why are so many people so wrong about this when host David Rothkopf is so right? Where does Rothkopf get his courage? And why do the producers let Rothkopf write these podcast summaries when either Ed Luce or Rosa Brooks, who are really the stars of the episode, would have described it so much better and so differently. Listen in and see.

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Counterterrorism expert and Georgetown University Professor, Bruce Hoffman explains the drastic implications of the Taliban triumph, and journalist Toby Harnden talks about his new book on the first CIA team to enter Afghanistan. 

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The celebrated former FBI special agent and counterterrorism specialist says the Taliban aspire to undermining the West’s “Roman Empire.”

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The heart-rending scenes from Kabul Airport are now seared into our collective consciousness. The 20 year war in Afghanistan has clearly come to a disastrous end. While that may have been inevitable, the current chaos has nonetheless come as a shock. What should the administration do now? How to help those they can and manage the situation going forward? And what lessons can we draw after a two-decade long, misguided intervention in Afghanistan that will certainly go down as one of the great foreign policy failures in U.S. history? We discuss with Harvard's Stephen Walt, AEI's Kori Schake and Georgetown University's Rosa Brooks. Don't miss this special episode.

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We are at a watershed in our history. Some days it feels like justice and accountability are gaining ground and the outcome of this turning point may be a good one. On other days, the threats to our democracy grow and the very real possibility of a turn to authoritarianism in the US looms. There are echoes of this moment throughout our history. We turn to Boston College history professor and noted commentator Heather Cox Richardson to discuss recent developments and long-term historical perspectives. Ryan Goodman of NYU Law School and Just Security and Dr. Kavita Patel of the Brookings Institution and formerly of the Obama White House lead the questioning and offer key comments of their own. Don't miss it.

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Jeanne Meserve talks with Hans Kristensen, director of the Nuclear Information Project at the Federation of American Scientists, about how the world learned of China’s startling new ICBM silos, and Jeff Stein talks with Asia expert Robert Manning about the challenges of spying on North Korea.

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The vast majority of gains in life expectancy during the past century have been due not to miracle cures but to public health measures like sanitation. The key to their success was empowering and trusting our public health officials. We live in a time when an organized minority is this country is seeking to discredit them and when much of our public health mission--like care for addiction or psychosis--is left to the police and other agencies ill suited to the care these problems require. Dr. Leana Wen is a noted physician, commentator and former Public Health Commissioner of Baltimore. She has written an important new book on the role of public health in our society based on her own, inspiring life journey. We discuss that book, "Lifelines: A Doctor's Journey in the Fight for Public Health", with her in this special episode of the podcast. Join us.

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The UN has put out a climate report that is devastating in its conclusions. They call it a "code red for humanity." Inaction, greed and ignorance have already irreparably damaged the planet. What do we do now? Are our leaders even capable of coping with the problem? The same question can be asked regarding their ability to address next generation issues associated with new technologies--from cyber to AI. What must change before we are capable of making informed decisions to address 21st Century problems? We discuss with Rosa Brooks of Georgetown University, Kori Schake of the American Enterprise Institute and David Sanger of the New York Times. Don't miss it.

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Slowly, thanks to Congressional information requests and court cases, hard evidence is emerging about the way the former president and those close to him worked to steal the last election. You would think that would lead to grand juries being empaneled, indictments and convictions. But so far, nothing of the kind seems imminent from the Department of Justice and while Congress has on-going investigations real concrete progress seems distant. Where does that leave us? We discuss with Ryan Goodman of "Just Security" and NYU Law School, Rosa Brooks of Georgetown University Law School and Dr. Kavita Patel of the Brookings Institution. It's a pretty tough discussion to hear...but you need to hear it.

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An expert on Congressional probes tells Jeff Stein why investigators on the House Select Committee on Jan. 5 have to develop confidential sources deep inside DHS, DoD and the FBI. And retired Marine Corps Gen. Greg Newbold tells Jeanne Meserve that China's control of precious metals is a threat to US intelligence. 

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Face it, since George Washington, for all the glamor and intrigue the rest of the world may hold, Americans would pretty much like to be left out of it. Over the course of our history, that impulse has been magnified by the fact that often when we do find ourselves forced to be involved, we delay until we tend to overreact. Right now, America's interest in the rest of the world seems to be at a momentary low as we deal with pressing domestic issues. Which raises the question: Where will we overreact next? (See: China, People's Republic of) A lively and thought provoking conversation with Kori Schake of the American Enterprise Institute, David Sanger of the New York Times and host, David Rothkopf.

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On this special super-sized (hour-long) edition of Deep State Radio we review the auspicious launch of the January 6th Commission with former US Attorney Barb McQuade and NYU Law School's Ryan Goodman and then we have a discussion of what can be done about the stunning and disturbing resurgence of COVID across the US with Dr. Kavita Patel. What do the insurrection, the defense of domestic terrorists behind it and the rejection of science, vaccines and masks that have fueled this new wave of the pandemic have in common? Tune in to find out. (Already know? Well, tune in to find out how pissed off it makes us. Plus: New discounts for the vaccinated!) All on Deep State Radio, the first podcast in America with a vaccine mandate! If you're not vaccinated...don't listen!

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The FBI is still coming up short on dealing with white violent extremists, former undercover special agent Mike German tells Jeff Stein. And Jeanne Meserve delves into a little known DIA medical intelligence unit.

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With the decision by the Biden Administration to pull the last troops out of Afghanistan and the last combat troops out of Iraq, it marks the end to two decades of U.S. foreign policy in which the War on Terrorism and instability in the Middle East dominated policymakers attentions. Biden seeks to turn the page to 21st Century priorities like China, competitiveness, fixing what is broken at home and next generation threats like cyber. It seems reasonable not to mention long overdue. David Sanger of the New York Times, Rosa Brooks of Georgetown Law School and Ed Luce of the Financial Times debate whether it is the right move and whether it is being done in the right way. Don't miss this lively and timely discussion.

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The science shows that GOP-led resistance to the vaccine is fueling a resurgence of COVID in the US. Anger against the unvaccinated is understandably growing as their ignorance and politics are putting the country at risk again. Where will this lead? What will this new wave of COVID look and feel like? What should we do about it? How does our international response figure in? We discuss these essential and urgent issues with Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Laurie Garrett, former Obama health care advisor Dr. Kavita Patel and Ryan Goodman of "Just Security." Don't miss this episode.

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A father & daughter have a monster TikTok hit talkIng about his intelligence career. Former CIA analyst Frank Snepp describes the heartbreak of Saigon and the agony of Kabul. And “Spooked” author Barry Meier addresses the NSO-Pegasus surveillance scandal.

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It is a paradox of international relations that U.S. neighbors in the Western Hemisphere have two primary complaints about U.S.

relations with the region. The first is that the U.S. does not pay enough attention to our neighbors. The second, which is often

the first, is that the U.S. pays too much attention to our neighbors. Once again, Latin America is reeling from a crisis, this one fueled by the 

COVID pandemic and some really bad leadership in key countries. And in smaller countries like Haiti and Cuba other kinds of unrest is

unfolding. What can and should the US do? What about the rest of the hemisphere? And what will the region's number one trading and investment partner,

China, do going forward? We discuss with Council on Foreign Relations Latin America expert Shannon O'Neil and Ed Luce of the

Financial Times. Don't miss this episode.

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Former CIA counterintelligence chief James Olson tells Jeff Stein the CIA and FBI need to “resuscitate” double agent ops to penetrate enemy spy services, and Jeanne Meserve talks with former senior U.S. cybercrime official Chris Painter about the rash of ransomware attacks by REvil and other Russia-based malefactors.

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It is said that an old actor on his deathbed once said, "Dying is easy. Comedy is hard." Whether that actually happened or not, the foreign policy equivalent may be "Invading a country is easy. Turning it into a democracy is hard." The US discovers this on the regular...and each time it is as though it had never happened before. We discuss with regard to Afghanistan...and many other instances. And if modern day Americans did not have enough evidence all around us to remind us of how tough it it is to establish and maintain a democracy, we suggest that perhaps you could have asked John Hanson, first president of the United States. Join Kori Schake of the American Enterprise Institute, Rosa Brooks of Georgetown Law School and host, David Rothkopf, for this lively and entertaining discussion.

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Congressman Eric Swalwell has been one of the leading voices in the US Congress demanding that the former president and those around him be held accountable for their violations of the Constitution and their oaths of office. Swalwell's book "Endgame: Inside the Impeachments of Donald J. Trump" was among the first insider looks at the impeachment process and the paperback edition, out now, has an extensive update to look at the January 6th attack and the subsequent second impeachment of the 45th president. We discuss the book and his view of where the efforts to bring Trump and those around him to justice stand. Don't miss it.

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Estimates now say 900,000 Americans died as a consequence of the COVID pandemic. But estimates suggest 40-90 percent of those deaths could have been avoided if the Trump Administration acted more swiftly, more effectively or more in concert with the advice of scientists. A new book dives deep into what happened behind the scenes in the administration and on this episode, we talk with one of the authors, Yasmeen Abutaleb. Join Ryan Goodman of NYU Law School, Dr. Kavita Patel of the Brookings Institution and host David Rothkopf for a discussion of this new best-seller, "Nightmare Scenario--Inside the Trump Administration's Response to the Pandemic that Changed History."

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Former senior CIA officer Doug London talks with Jeff Stein about the present and future intelligence picture in chaotic Afghanistan. And Jeanne Meserve has a fascinating talk with former top DHS intel official and retired Brigadier General Francis X. Taylor about dealing with violent extremists in the military ranks. 

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The most recent Supreme Court decisions remind us that on our current path voter suppression and more power be given to the richest members of our society are only going to get worse. The current majority on the court exists because presidents elected by a minority of voters nominated candidates who won election thanks to Senators representing a minority of Americans. We discuss where we are headed with David Corn of Mother Jones, Ryan Goodman of NYU Law School and Dr. Kavita Patel of the Brookings Institution. In addition we consider the implications of the indictment of the Trump Organization and its CFO and of the launching of the committee to investigate the 1/6 insurrection for our political future. Don't miss this timely episode.

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Nicholas Eftimiades, a top expert on Chinese espionage, tells Jeff Stein he doubts reports that Beijing’s top counterspy defected to the US—but that Beijing has “many” moles in U.S/ intelligence. And Jeanne Meserve talks with top former FBI national security official Jay Tabb about the challenges of dealing with home-grown American terrorists.

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The U.S. was questioning its ability to lead the world. The structures of the global economy seemed outdated. There were deep tensions between those who sought to put America first and those who recognized the future of US growth lay in the global economy. It sounds a lot like today. But it was 1971. In a brilliant new book, former Yale School of Management Dean and top U.S. government official Jeffrey E. Garten describes how over one weekend the leaders of the Nixon Administration got together and set a new course for the U.S. and the world economy. The resonances with today are unmistakable and the lessons are essential. We discuss with former U.S. Under Secretary of Commerce Robert Hormats, Financial Times columnist Rana Foroohar and Garten. Don't miss this special episode of the podcast.

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There are many rumblings of a new Cold War brewing between the US and China. But the governments in Washington and Beijing both seem to be most focused on domestic political issues and maintaining power. Which might suggest that much of the ratcheting up of toughness between them is performative. Especially as a large global coalition is emerging that holds common views toward how China must behave to engage on the world stage in the leadership role it seeks. David Sanger of the New York Times, Kori Schake of the American Enterprise Institute and Rosa Brooks of Georgetown Law Center discuss. Join us.

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The threats to democracy in the US are building. The response is to call for new laws that first will require changes in the rules of the Senate. If we can get those changes, we should. But what if we can't? What is plan B? How do we avoid locking in changes to our system from which there is no recovery? Will holding Trump and Trumpists accountable for their abuses be any part of that. We discuss with democracy expert Norm Ornstein of the American Enterprise Institute, Dr. Kavita Patel of the Brookings Institution and formerly of the Obama White House and Ryan Goodman of NYU Law School and "Just Security." It's a sobering but essential listen.  

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Yes, there’s a real James Bond, and Jeanne Meserve chatted him up on the curses and blessings of having such a legendary moniker. And historian Audra Wolfe talks with Jeff Stein about the role of American scientists in the Cold War and beyond.

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To celebrate the fourth anniversary of Deep State Radio (which is to say something like 750 podcasts and a growing audience throughout), we have convened our inner circle of experts, our regular Deep State family, for a look four years from now. As you might expect, we have optimism, pessimism, realism, idealism, and a host of other flavors of outlook from which you can choose. It is the right way to celebrate the past four years and--especially--our deep gratitude to each and every Deep State nerd out there who has helped make the podcast and all of its spin-offs such a success. Don't miss it. And...thank you everybody! We look forward to the next four years!  

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Listening to FBI Director Christopher Wray before the Congress this week and last, his answers were long and yet achieved a kind of studied vacuousness. There was no there there. No substantive. No sense of responsibility for clear intelligence failures. No sense that we were getting to the root causes of the event. No sense that those really responsible for it will be brought to justice. And for all the reasons there was no sense that we will be able to avoid other such events in the future. Former FBI agent Frank Figliuzzi believes we won't. Ryan Goodman of NYU Law School and his co-host David Rothkopf speak to Figliuzzi and former US attorney Barb McQuade about the questions Wray and others need to be asked...and answer. Join us for a substantive and disturbing conversation.

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The lack of accountability for Donald Trump and his cronies for the January 6th insurrection, for the serial obstruction of justice identified by the Mueller investigation, for his alleged fraud at the helm of the Trump Organization, for his efforts to intimidate state election officials in the wake of the 2020 election, for his serial sexual abuse cases...and for so much more...is deeply frustrating. Sometimes it feels as though he has gamed the system and will never be brought to justice. Allison Gill, host of the Daily Beans podcast, is a student of these cases and she counsels patience. We discuss what's next in these cases and on another front where she has been a courageous leader, sexual abuse in the military, with AG on this special edition of Deep State Radio. Don't miss it.

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Terrorism expert Gina Ligon tells Jeanne Meserve that the Biden administration’s initiative on domestic extremism represents a ‘sea change’ in policy but doesn’t address the root causes of populist violence. Israeli counterterrorism dramas do, an American ex-pat writer in Jerusalem tells Jeff Stein, because so many involved have served in spy units.

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When Vladimir Putin sits down with Joe Biden, both men will be well familiar with each other and Putin will have no illusions that he can toy with the new American president like he could with the last one. Joe Biden has been working at a high level in US foreign policy since 1973 (when Leonid Brezhnev was General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.) As Biden's Europe trip has demonstrated this past week, he is a savvy foreign policy professional who knows how to pull the levers of diplomacy behind the scenes. If not every speech is a barn burner, the results so far outstrip those of all his recent predecessors in their first years in office. We discuss the Putin meeting with David Sanger of the New York Times, who is traveling with the president, and Evelyn Farkas, former senior Obama Administration official and Russia specialist.

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Financial Times Editor-at-Large Gillian Tett has distinguished herself as a brilliant observer of markets and politics. That is in part due to the training she got while earning her PhD in anthropology. It is that experience and method that she brings to her latest book, the lucid, eye-opening and compelling "Anthro Vision: A New Way to See in Business and Life." It's insights and lessons are exceptionally powerful tools for leaders in every sector facing a world struggling to recover and coping with rapid change. Edward Luce, also of the Financial Times, and host David Rothkopf, discuss the book and how it applies to the lives of our listeners. You won't want to miss this conversation.

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Ahead of presidents Putin and Biden meeting in Geneva, a psychiatrist puts the leader of Russia on the couch. Dr. Kenneth Dekleva, who served in the US embassy in Moscow, joins co-host Jeanne Meserve for a special edition of SpyTalk.

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With Republicans variously arguing that vaccines make people magnetic and that the Forest Service should be able to reroute the Moon's orbit, you'd think the party would be headed for a bad end. Add in the corruption and the traitors and the insurrections and it is baffling there still is a GOP. Yet, that said, many observers are predicting the GOP will win the House and Senate in next year's midterm elections. If that happens, you can expect columns the morning after asking whether the party that stood up for truth and the rule of law has a future. We discuss this and what the Dems should do about it with James Hohmann of the Washington Post, Dr, Kavita Patel of the Brookings Institution and the Obama White House and Ryan Goodman of NYU Law School and "Just Security." Don't miss this. Although you may want an adult beverage at hand while you listen. 

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Chinese espionage poses a mortal threat to the US, former counterintelligence boss Bill Evanina tells Jeanne Meserve. And author Kai Bird talks with Jeff Stein about a clandestine plot with Iran by Reagan campaign manager and future CIA Director Bill Casey to deny Jimmy Carter re-election. 

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Pultizer Prize-winner Daniel Yergin is widely regarded as the world's foremost analyst and commentator on energy issues. His books have chronicled every aspect of how modern energy markets have evolved and their impact on geopolitics and daily life. His latest book, "The New Map: Energy, Climate and the Clash of Nations," describes how emerging energy technologies and climate related issues are impacting power and the potential for conflict, growth and power shifts worldwide. We discuss the book and how it ties to today's headlines with Yergin on this special episode. Don't miss it.

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Joe Biden is off to Europe. He will meet with Allies and with Vladimir Putin. Under Trump, that was a formula for headlines and disaster. Under all presidents such trips produce fraught analyses seeking to identify presidential doctrines and historic deliverables. But most of diplomacy is blocking and tackling. And much of it best done out of sight of the public. We discuss the upcoming trip with Atlantic columnist Tom Nichols, AEI's Kori Schake and Georgetown Law's Rosa Brooks and we come to the conclusion that "Biden Returns Home After Uneventful Trip" might be the best outcome of all. We also discuss what might be the tougher upcoming diplomatic trip in the next few days, that of Kamala Harris to Mexico and Central America. Don't miss it. 

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On this special edition of SpyTalk, co-host Jeanne Meserve speaks with William Evanina, former Director of the United States National Counterintelligence and Security Center about the recent spate of ransomware attacks. Evanina says President Biden should threaten to pull out of the upcoming summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin, and that the US should demonstrate it is willing and able to shut down Russian infrastructure.

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The Democrats keep bending over backwards to "do what's right" or "preserve bipartisanship." Republicans meanwhile have made it clear they have no interest in doing what's right or bipartisanship. Is the Democratic strategy a way to get to enough votes to reform the filibuster and thereby thwart GOP efforts to gut democracy? Or is it the old story of Lucy, Charlie Brown and the football. The weeks ahead will reveal the truth. In the eyes of Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne, a moment of truth lies ahead. Ryan Goodman of "Just Security" and NYU Law School and Dr. Kavita Patel of the Brookings Institution and the Obama White House join the discussion. Don't miss it.

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Former top FBI domestic extremist specialist Tom O’Connor tells co-host Jeanne Meserve in a startling interview that he’s worried about another Timothy McVeigh plotting something big. And Jeff Stein talks with veteran intelligence reporter Bill Arkin about a vast Pentagon secret army combatting our enemies that no one’s heard about.

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Many are rightly focused on the importance of 2024's presidential elections and the midterms in 2022. But if we do not stop GOP efforts at voter suppression this year...which means ending the filibuster this year...and we don't create accountability for Trump Administration abuses, we will set in motion inevitable defeats not just for Democrats but for American democracy in the years ahead. We discuss with the American Enterprise Institute's Norm Ornstein, Brookings scholar Dr. Kavita Patel and co-editor of Just Security and Professor at NYU Law School Ryan Goodman. Don't miss it.

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Jean Meserve talks with former Homeland Security Assistant Secretary Juliette Kayyem about the mess in DHS’ intelligence shop, and Jeff Stein interviews Barry Meier about his new book, “Spooked: The Trump Dossier, Black Cube, and the Rise of Private Spies.”

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Richard Haass, president of the Council on Foreign Relations, is one of the world's leading thinkers on international affairs. His most recent book, "The World: A Brief Introduction" is a one volume crash course into how we got to where we are and where we go from here. It is now out in paperback and to mark that event, we sat down with Richad to discuss the book, America's changing role in the world, the impact of COVID, our very different rivalries with China and Russia and much much more. Ed Luce of the Financial Times joins in the conversation for a pod episode you won't want to miss.

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