Coaching for Leaders

Guy Winch is a psychologist and bestselling author who advocates for integrating the science of emotional health into our daily lives. His TED talks have attracted over 35 million views, and his books have been translated into more than 30 languages. He is co-host of the Ambie-nominated Dear Therapists podcast and the author of the book Mind Over Grind: How to Break Free When Work Hijacks Your Life (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Some of our parents got to work in the morning, put in a full day, and then by dinner time, didn’t think about work or do it until the next morning. That’s not reality for a lot of us today, so in this conversation, Guy and I explore what you can do to take back your evenings.

• Most work stress isn’t experienced at work.
• Healthy thinking is intentional and leads us somewhere useful. Unhealthy thinking (rumination) isn’t intentional and tends to repeat the same script. It feels more like unpaid work.
• To interrupt rumination outside of work, first label it and then associate it with disgust, disdain, and annoyance. Treat it like you would a skunk sitting next to you on the couch.
• Rituals help our brains make a distinction between time to work and time to recover. Rituals are most powerful when they invoke one or more of our five senses to signal a shift to our brains.
• Often we think of relaxation and recovery the same way our grandparents did who often did more manual work. Work today tends to be more mental and emotional, so indexing on ways to engage physically during recovery times is helpful.
• Rather than just assuming that doing nothing, sitting on a beach, or seeing the sights is the best vacation, consider engaging in the things you love that you normally don’t get to do.

• Mind Over Grind: How to Break Free When Work Hijacks Your Life by Guy Winch (Amazon, Bookshop)*

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• Align Your Calendar to What Matters, with Nir Eyal (episode 431)
• What to Do With Your Feelings, with Lori Gottlieb (episode 438)
• How High Achievers Begin to Find Balance, with Michael Hyatt (episode 522)

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Gustavo Razzetti is a culture change instigator, speaker, and
CEO of Fearless Culture, a culture design consultancy. He helps
leaders build teams that talk about what matters—even when it’s
uncomfortable–through his books and tools, including the Culture Design Canvas. He is the author of Forward Talk: The Bold New Method for Getting Teams Unstuck (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

The beauty of a team is that we can get so much more done with collaboration. It also means that sometimes we surrender our responsibility to others. In this conversation, Gustavo and I explore what to do when a team gets stuck.

• Conversations are the foundation of collaboration. Without them, teams quickly build conversational debt.
• We don’t stay silent because we’re scared. Rather, we stay quiet because we surrender our responsibility to others.
• Many of us overestimate our courage. We believe that we’ll say something, but studies show that often we do not.
• Forward Talk accomplishes two things: (1) addresses the real issue and (2) focuses on the future.
• See information as an opportunity instead of an obstacle. Courage can begin with admitting what you don’t know.
• Perspective is the choice to share your views instead of surrendering your judgment to social pressure.
• Responsibility is a commitment to understand the systemic issues instead of entering into blame.

• Forward Talk: The Bold New Method for Getting Teams Unstuck by Gustavo Razzetti (Amazon, Bookshop)*

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• Getting Better at Internal Communication, with Roy Schwartz (episode 687)
• Help Your Team Coach Each Other, with Keith Ferrazzi (episode 709)
• What Really Matters for Team Success, with Colin Fisher (episode 748)

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Bonni is the host of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, Dean of Teaching and Learning and Professor of Business and Management at Vanguard University, and my life partner. Prior to her academic career, she was a human resources consultant and executive officer for a publicly traded company. Bonni is the author of The Productive Online and Offline Professor: A Practical Guide (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

In this reflection episode, Bonni and I look back on recent past episodes and discuss questions, feedback, and insights that have surfaced from recent conversations.

Dave responded to this question from Margaret Andrews:

• What does success look like for you?

“You can have everything in life you want if you’ll just help enough other people get what they want.” -Zig Ziglar

“Success is the progressive realization of a worthy ideal.” -Earl Nightingale

Bonni responded to this question:

• What feedback have you received over the years about how your actions and behaviors impact others?

• To be of use by Marge Piercy

• How to Get Way Better at Accepting Feedback, with Sheila Heen (episode 143)
• Six Questions Every Leader Should Ask Themselves, with Margaret Andrews (episode 750)
• How to Lead a Meaningful Cultural Shift, with David Hutchens (episode 755)

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Shirzad has been the CEO of the largest coach training organization in the world. He has lectured on Positive Intelligence at Stanford University and has trained faculty at Stanford and Yale business schools. He is the author of The New York Times bestseller Positive Intelligence: Why Only 20% of Teams and Individuals Achieve Their True Potential and How You Can Achieve Yours (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

By overusing our strengths, they can become our weakness. It’s just one of the many ways that leaders self-sabotage. In this conversation, Shirzad and I explore how to shift from self-sabotage to self-mastery.

Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them. -Henry David Thoreau

• We are all a mixed bag of Darth Vader (saboteur) and Jedi knight (sage).
• By overusing a strength, you turn it into a weakness.
• Rather than attempting to eliminate all our saboteurs, it’s more helpful to be intentional about quieting them down.
• The four most common saboteurs that show up for leaders are Controller, Stickler, Hyper Achiever, Hyper Rational.
• Sage perspective: Every outcome or circumstance can be turned into an opportunity.
• A 10-second brain shift can help quiet your mind and engage the sage. One way to do this is to rub your fingers together and notice the friction to get your mind out of autopilot.

• Positive Intelligence: Why Only 20% of Teams and Individuals Achieve Their True Potential and How You Can Achieve Yours by Shirzad Chamine (Amazon, Bookshop)*
• Saboteur Assessment
• Dave’s assessment results

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• How to Tame Your Inner Critic, with Tara Mohr (episode 232)
• The Path to More Joy in Work and Life, with Judith Joseph (episode 734)
• How to See What’s Holding You Back, with Marty Dubin (episode 765)

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Nilofer Merchant is ranked among the world’s top management thinkers by Thinkers50 and is the founder of The Intangible Labs, where she defines the leading indicators of modern work. She’s launched more than 100 products totaling $18B in revenue, and her TED Talk, Sitting Is the Smoking of Our Generation, ranks in the top 10% of all TED Talks. She is the author of Our Best Work: Break Free from the 24 Invisible Norms That Limit Us (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

When bad behavior happens in an organization, it’s the job of the leader to address it. In this conversation, Nilofer and I explore the strategies and tactics that will help you do this with clarity and effectiveness.

• Bad behavior isn’t just “bad apples” – it’s also the organizational norms of “the barrel” that reinforce these behaviors.
• Most management norms are not persuasive; they are persistent.
• Begin by getting clarity on what’s acceptable and what’s not.
• Interrupt behavior without escalation. Consider phrases like, “Ouch,” or “I don’t know if you mean to…” or, “Did you intend that to be hurtful?”
• Culture is not defined by words on the wall—­it’s defined by what happens when someone crosses the line.
• Ask everyone to enforce norms, not just the person who was harmed.

• Our Best Work: Break Free from the 24 Invisible Norms That Limit Us by Nilofer Merchant (Amazon, Bookshop)*

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• The Way to Be More Coach-Like, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 458)
• How to Respond Better When Challenged, with Dolly Chugh (episode 615)
• Being Nice May Not Be Kind, with Graham Allcott (episode 767)

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Marcus Buckingham is the author of two of the best-selling business books of all time and has three of Harvard Business Review’s most circulated, industry-changing cover articles. After spending two decades studying excellence at the Gallup Organization and co-creating the StrengthsFinder tool, he built his own Coaching + Education firm and has been a prominent researcher on strengths, love, and leadership at work. He is the author of Design Love In: How to Unleash the Most Powerful Force in Business (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Most everyone who listens to this podcast wants to go way beyond just hitting numbers and achieving goals. In addition to that, we want so deeply to see the people the work with flourish in their careers. In this conversation, Marcus and I explore the sequence of five feelings that make this work – and why a lot of it comes down to love.

• Love dies, not from being killed – but from forgetting and neglect.
• The difference is massive in what we give a top rating to and everything else.
• Love is the deep and unwavering commitment to the flourishing of a human.
• Shift from leaders making decisions to leaders making experiences.

The five feelings follow this sequence:

1. Control
2. Harmony
3. Significance
4. Warmth of others
5. Growth

• Design Love In: How to Unleash the Most Powerful Force in Business by Marcus Buckingham (Amazon, Bookshop)*
• Design Love In
• Lovethat.com

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• How to Lead Top-Line Growth, with Tim Sanders (episode 299)
• Transcend Leadership Struggles Through Your Strengths, with Lisa Cummings (episode 692)
• Clarifying Values for a Workplace People Love, with Anne Chow (episode 712)

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Anthony Klotz is an organizational psychologist and Professor of Management at the UCL School of Management. He is the person who both predicted and coined the term “The Great Resignation,” and his groundbreaking research on quitting, work design, and employee performance has made him a leading voice on the future of work. He is the author of Jolted: Why We Quit, When to Stay, and Why It Matters (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Most of us have attempted to support an employee dealing with a tough career moment. Not all the time, but certainly sometimes, we see those moments coming. When an employee is dealing with a big jolt – or about to – this conversation with Anthony will show you how to help.

• Jolts have an outsized influence on people’s overall relationship with their work.
• Managers play a deciding role in how people respond to jolts and are in the best position to insulate the negative effects and amplify the positive effects.
• Managers can often anticipate and predict jolts to employees. The plans leaders have often become the jolts that others experience.
• If people can make sense of a jolting event, they are better able to deal with it constructively.
• The perception of how fair an event is and how fair the process was leading up to the event massively impacts how people perceive it.
• A clear explanation of why change is happening and what it means can substantially minimize the negative effects of career jolts.
• The tendency for organizations to delay bad news often is counterproductive to helping managers and employees navigate jolts.
• Partnership with others (managers, friends, family members) helps most of us better process what we might otherwise attempt to do alone.

• Jolted: Why We Quit, When to Stay, and Why It Matters (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Anthony Klotz

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy (episode 571)
• How to Quit Bad Stuff Faster, with Annie Duke (episode 607)
• Stop Solving Your Team’s Problems, with Elizabeth Lotardo (episode 764)

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Neri Karra Sillaman is a refugee-turned-entrepreneur, academic, and author whose work focuses on the importance of resilience, purpose, and vision in business and in life. She is the recipient of the Thinkers50 Radar Award, an entrepreneurship expert at the University of Oxford, and the founder of Neri Karra, a global luxury leather goods brand. She is the author of Pioneers: 8 Principles of Business Longevity from Immigrant Entrepreneurs (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

We all know that the right connections can help in our careers, but how do we actually get more intentional about forging the connections that will be most meaningful and sustainable? In this conversation, Neri and I explore the key lessons from immigrant entrepreneurs and how their successes can help us all thrive.

• Robins and titmice have vastly different outcomes because of their divergent abilities for flocking. Social capital is critical for success.
• Diversity brings many strengths – and it also introduces new challenges for connection. We can’t as easily rely on connections through traditional cultures or experiences.
• All of us have the ability to forge connections based on value. This is perhaps the most powerful homophily tie and accessible to everyone.
• The most successful immigrant entrepreneurs don’t rely on connections happening automatically and also don’t assume that relationships will be static.
• Focus on what unites you with others. Strengthen ties with other networks to avoid the risk of communities that are too insular.
• Be proactive and generous in sharing information and ideas to support others.

• Pioneers: 8 Principles of Business Longevity from Immigrant Entrepreneurs by Neri Karra Sillaman (Amazon, Bookshop)*

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• Three People Who Will Help You Grow, with Andrew C.M. Cooper (episode 700)
• The Way to Build Collective Power, with Ruchika T. Malhotra (episode 759)
• Using AI to Make Networking Easier, with Ruth Gotian (episode 766)

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David Yeager is a professor of psychology at the University of Texas at Austin and the cofounder of the Texas Behavioral Science and Policy Institute. He is best known for his research conducted with Carol Dweck, Angela Duckworth, and Greg Walton on short but powerful interventions that influence adolescent behaviors such as motivation, engagement, healthy eating, bullying, stress, mental health, and more. He is the author of 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Older generations have been complaining about younger generations for all of recorded history. Today is no different, and I often hear how leaders are struggling with motivating their younger employees. In this conversation, David and I explore the most recent research and practice for what actually works.

• Older generations have been complaining about younger generations for all of recorded history. Often, our complaints are the result of our own past experiences.
• Many leaders experience the mentor’s dilemma: being nice and putting up with poor performance, or being critical and demanding higher performance.
• Status and respect for a young person are as critical as food and sleep to a baby. When satisfied, they can open up much better motivation and behavior.
• The mentor mindset embraces both high standards and high support for the young person you wish to motivate. Because this is a mindset, you can absolutely get better at it.
• When giving feedback to a young person, acknowledge the high standard you are setting and also tell the young person that you believe they can meet that standard.
• Young people have often experienced a lot of “enforcing” behavior from parents, teachers, and coaches. They assume this in the workplace if you don’t make a point to say otherwise.

• 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People by David Yeager (Amazon, Bookshop)*
• The Power of Mindset (Masterclass)

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• How to Challenge Directly and Care Personally, with Kim Scott (episode 302)
• How to Reduce Drama With Kids, with Tina Payne Bryson (episode 310)
• How to Solve the Toughest Problems, with Wendy Smith (episode 612)

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Today (Friday, March 20th) is the FINAL DAY to apply to the Coaching for Leaders Academy. If you are at an inflection point and ready to thrive, apply before the end of the day at coachingforleaders.com/academy.

Are you at an inflection point in your leadership? The Coaching for Leaders Academy helps leaders thrive at key inflection points.

Apply to the Academy by Friday, March 20th.

In this episode, Dave shares the five things that he sees most commonly get in leaders’ ways:

1. Not asking for help.
2. Assuming knowledge drives behavior.
3. Setting the tactical bar too high.
4. Feeling worse before feeling better.
5. Not noticing any improvement.

Linda Hill is the Wallace Brett Donham Professor of Business Administration and Faculty Chair of the Leadership Initiative at Harvard Business School. Globally recognized as a top leadership and innovation expert, Linda has been named by Thinkers50 as one of the world’s top five management thinkers. She is the co-author, along with Emily Tedards and Jason Wild, of Genius at Scale: How Great Leaders Drive Innovation (Amazon, Bookshop)*

We all want to think of ourselves as innovative, but it’s often not easy to know exactly what that means in practice. In this conversation, Linda and I explore what her research shows that leaders do to drive innovation successfully – and how each of us can get just a bit better.

• Rather than coming up with a vision and asking people to follow it, innovation is about creating the culture and capabilities to create the future together.
• Innovation leadership shows up in three ways within organizations: the Architects, the Bridge Builders, and the Catalysts.
• Instead of setting the stage for themselves, innovative leaders set the stage for others.
• Often, we view horizontal relationships through the lens of organizational politics. The most effective innovation leaders view these relationships as leadership opportunities.
• Traditional team structures are a starting point, but not an ending point. Leaders at Mastercard, Pfizer, and Cleveland Clinic all brought in team members from both inside and outside the organization.
• Rather than thinking about a decision as final, it’s helpful for innovation leaders to frame it as a “working hypothesis.”

• Genius at Scale: How Great Leaders Drive Innovation by Linda Hill, Emily Tedards, and Jason Wild (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• How to Build an Invincible Company, with Alex Osterwalder (episode 470)
• The Way Innovators Get Traction, with Tendayi Viki (episode 512)
• Doing Better Than Zero-Sum Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641)

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Academy alum Marisol Bello of The Housing Narrative Lab joins Dave to share how she made the shift from command and control to serve and support.

Are you at an inflection point? Applications to the Coaching for Leaders Academy are open until Friday, March 20th. Visit the Coaching for Leaders Academy page to apply.

Nir Eyal writes, consults, and teaches about the intersection of psychology, technology, and business. He is the author of two bestselling books, Hooked and Indistractable, selling more than a million copies and translated in over 30 languages. He is the author of the new book, Beyond Belief: The Science-Backed Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Breakthrough Results (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Most of us recognize that a huge part of what motivates us – or not – is our own thinking. In this conversation, Nir and I explore where our beliefs get in the way and how we can align them just a bit to help us move forward.

• A sentence starting with “I am…” can be among the most dangerous in any language. Often, our beliefs limit us.
• Belief is the foundation of the motivation triangle that includes benefit and behavior. Yet, we often overlook beliefs.
• Curt Richter’s study of rats in the 1950s shows how an animal’s belief system can massively influence its behavior.
• The real question isn’t “Is this belief true?” but rather, “Does this belief serve me?”
• You can choose beliefs based on usefulness, not certainty.
• Difficulty may mean we are not cut out for something, but it might also be evidence of growth. Too often, we quit too soon.
• Progress comes from consistent action, not perfect plans.

• Beyond Belief: The Science-Backed Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Breakthrough Results (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Nir Eyal.

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• How to Win the Long Game When the Short-Term Seems Bleak, with Dorie Clark (episode 550)
• How to Quit Bad Stuff Faster, with Annie Duke (episode 607)
• How to Better Manage Your Emotions, with Ethan Kross (episode 719)

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Academy alum Bill Mayo joins Dave to share how he improved his listening skills — both at work and at home.

Applications to the Coaching for Leaders Academy are open until Friday, March 20th. Visit the Coaching for Leaders Academy page to apply.

Rebecca Hinds is a leading expert on organizational behavior and the future of work. She founded and led the Work Innovation Lab at Asana and the Work AI Institute at Glean, where she partners with leading experts to help organizations transform their work with AI. She is the author of Your Best Meeting Ever: 7 Principles for Designing Meetings That Get Things Done (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Considering the amount of time we all spend in meetings, it’s odd that most organizations do so little to measure meeting results. If that’s sounding familiar, this conversation between Rebecca and me will show you exactly how to get started.

• Metrics that only measure the costs of meetings (dollars and time) can be useful, but rarely capture the full picture.
• Use Return on Time Invested (ROTI) anonymously to survey attendees to determine if a meeting was a good use of time. Also ask, “What would it take for you to improve your rating by one point?”
• Survey sparingly to avoid survey fatigue. Bringing in a survey 10% of the time is a benchmark to start from.
• If the amount of time in meetings vastly exceeds 10 hours a week, there’s likely an opportunity to scale back or redefine the work before or after meetings to use time better.
• Equal speaking time in meetings is a key indicator of team performance. Be transparent with employees about any technology you use to capture data.
• Punctuality and attendance rate are indicators of how valued meetings are for people.

• Your Best Meeting Ever: 7 Principles for Designing Meetings That Get Things Done by Rebecca Hinds (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• How to Lead Meetings That Get Results, with Mamie Kanfer Stewart (episode 358)
• Moving Towards Meetings of Significance, with Seth Godin (episode 632)
• How to Lead Engaging Meetings, with Jess Britt (episode 721)

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Lily Zheng is a sought-after speaker, strategist, and organizational consultant who specializes in hands-on systemic change to turn positive intentions into positive outcomes for workplaces and everyone in them. A dedicated changemaker and advocate, Lily has had their work published in the Harvard Business Review, New York Times, and NPR. They are the author of Fixing Fairness: 4 Tenets to Transform Diversity Backlash into Progress for All (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

When it comes to fairness in the workplace, our society is quick to zero in on what divides us. Yet, there is broad agreement across all demographics on many key principles. In this conversation, Lily and I explore how leaders can influence the system to better work for everyone.

• Many of us assume that fewer people support the value of diversity than actually do. When asked, 82% of people support pro-diversity statements.
• The most popular/traditional approaches to fixing fairness in the workplace tend to be the least effective.
• Our tendency is to focus on the behavior of individuals, when in fact organizational systems have the most significant impact on fairness.
• When considering a fairness initiative or intervention, begin with the practice of understanding and storytelling, just like many change initiatives.
• Resist the temptation to check boxes with “quick fixes” such as simply bringing in a speaker or hosting a one-time event. This rarely helps in any sustainable way and sometimes worsens existing dynamics.
• If you have a seat at the leadership table, make the case for thoughtful design and involvement of stakeholders at all points in the process, just as many effective organizations do on any strategic change initiative.

• Fixing Fairness: 4 Tenets to Transform Diversity Backlash into Progress for All by Lily Zheng (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• Supporting Return to Work After Maternity Leave, with Danna Greenberg (episode 639)
• The Power of Unlearning Silence, with Elaine Lin Hering (episode 678)
• How to Lead a Meaningful Cultural Shift, with David Hutchens (episode 755)

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Phil Gilbert is best known for leading IBM’s 21st-century transformation as their General Manager of Design. The transformation became the subject of a Harvard Business School case study, the documentary film The Loop, and feature articles in the New York Times and Fortune Magazine. He is the author of Irresistible Change: A Blueprint for Earning Buy-In and Breakout Success (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

We’ve all been through mandated change initiatives more times than we can count. But what if change wasn’t a mandate, but an offer – or even an invitation? In this conversation, Phil and I explore how to make change irresistible.

• Change should be regarded as a high-value-add product.
• Don’t mandate change. Offer change.
• Your goal is sustained cultural adoption, not improving immediate competency.
• Start small, but cover all your bases on a reduced scale. Make a great cupcake instead of a mediocre wedding cake.
• People buy brands, not products. Branding change allows you to define the values and message that goes with it.

• Irresistible Change: A Blueprint for Earning Buy-In and Breakout Success by Phil Gilbert (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy (episode 571)
• Where Senior Leaders Can Better Support Middle Managers, with Emily Field (episode 650)
• How to Lead Organizational Change, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 740)

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Charles Duhigg is a Pulitzer Prize–winning investigative journalist and the author of The Power of Habit and Smarter Faster Better. He is a winner of the National Academies of Sciences, National Journalism, and George Polk awards. He writes for The New Yorker and other publications and is the author of Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

A lot of us grew up in a world where most of our relationships started in person. That means many of us are beautifully equipped for a world that no longer exists. In this conversation, Charles and I discuss how to get better at connecting in a remote-first world.

• When the telephone first became popular, people had to learn how to communicate with it. We’re at a similar inflection point with digital communication.
• We all have three kinds of conversations: (1) What’s this really about? (practical/decision-making), (2) How do we feel? (emotional), and (3) Who are we? (identity).
• Many of us tend to default to practical/decision-making conversations online and miss conversations about emotion and identity.
• Ask questions that invite an emotional or identity response. Instead of, “Where do you live?” consider a shift like, “What do you love about where you live?”
• Notice when people bring elements into a conversation that aren’t related to the topic. These clues, especially online, can point to entry points for emotional connection.
• Supercommunicators pay just a bit more attention to how people communicate than the rest of us. A slight shift can make a big difference.

• Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection by Charles Duhigg (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• The Way to Get People Talking, with Andrew Warner (episode 560)
• How to Lead Engaging Meetings, with Jess Britt (episode 721)
• How to Show Up Authentically in Tough Situations, with Andrew Brodsky (episode 727)

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JP Elliott has decades of experience as a Talent and HR executive at companies like DICK’S Sporting Goods, McAfee, and Lenovo. He’s seen the challenges HR professionals face in growing their careers and increasing their impact. He is the host of the Future of HR podcast and on a mission to help HR professionals increase their business impact and accelerate their careers.

Leadership looks a little different if you head up a support role: human resources, IT, marketing, or finance. Often, we hear the term “business partner” used to describe what these leaders should be aiming for. In this conversation, JP and I explore how to shift from simply a “business partner” to a value creator.

• You’re not just an HR leader. You’re a business leader with HR expertise.
• Think like a CEO even if you’re in HR. Do this to be moving beyond an execution-only mindset.
• Design talent strategies based on the future, not on the past.
• Build systems that reward outcomes, not bureaucracy.
• Build talent strategies that differentiate your business.
• Forecast leadership needs 3-5 years out and build a pipeline for critical roles.

Four questions that CEOs are asking:

1. Are we focused on the right strategic imperatives?
2. Are we operating effectively and efficiently?
3. Are we optimizing our business model to create competitive advantage?
4. Do we have a plan for sustainable and profitable growth?

• Future of HR podcast by JP Elliott

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• How to Start Managing Up, with Tom Henschel (episode 433)
• How to Solve the Toughest Problems, with Wendy Smith (episode 612)
• The Mindset to Help Your Organization Grow, with Tiffani Bova (episode 633)

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Graham Allcott is an author, speaker, entrepreneur, and the founder of Think Productive, a leading provider of training and consultancy. He is the author of multiple books, including the bestseller How to Be a Productivity Ninja and his latest book, KIND: The Quiet Power of Kindness at Work (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

“Nice” means telling people what they want to hear. “Kind” means telling them what they need to hear. The best leaders are kind. In this conversation, Graham and I explore how we can do a better job of following through.

• “Nice” means telling people what they want to hear, whereas “kind” means telling them what they need to hear.
• Kindness is both concern for others and concern for self. Just like with salted caramel, it’s best with the right balance.
• Leaders often do better articulating vision and values than they do with getting clear on expectations of value each person should provide.
• Being clear is an act of kindness in itself because it drives psychological safety.
• Use a personal mantra as a concise and powerful way to consistently remind people about what’s most important.
• Invite others to “give the last 20%” in feedback to uncover areas where clarity would help.

• KIND: The Quiet Power of Kindness at Work by Graham Allcott (Amazon, Bookshop)*
• Rev Up for the Week (Graham’s newsletter)

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• Five Steps to Hold People Accountable, with Jonathan Raymond (episode 306)
• How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)
• How to Give Feedback, with Russ Laraway (episode 583)

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Ruth Gotian is the former Chief Learning Officer and Associate Professor of Education in Anaesthesiology at Weill Cornell Medicine. Thinkers50 has ranked her the #1 emerging management thinker in the world, and she’s a top LinkedIn voice in mentoring. She’s the author of The Success Factor and, with Andy Lopata, The Financial Times Guide to Mentoring.

Most of us recognize the value of building a better network, but we also know the time and dedication it takes. In this conversation, Ruth and I explore how we can use AI tools to do some of the administrative legwork so that we can spend more time on the real relationship-building.

• McKinsey reports that since the pandemic, most people’s networks have shrunk or stalled.
• Consider the 90/9/1 rule: 90% of people lurk in online communities, 9% interact somewhat regularly, 1% post and lead the conversation.
• Use AI to enhance, not replace, your communications. Invite AI to do the administrative legwork (i.e. brainstorming, proofreading) so you focus on the human aspects.
• Ask AI to analyze speaker and attendee lists in advance at conferences in the context of your goals.
• Consider being the person that puts together an in-person dinner or gathering at a conference. Use AI to help you prep questions and discover the best people to invite.
• Ask AI to help complete your LinkedIn profile. An All-Star LinkedIn profile makes it substantially more likely that you’ll get surfaced to others.

• Networking in the Age of AI by Ruth Gotian

• How to Grow Your Professional Network, with Tom Henschel* (episode 279)
• How to Build a Network While Still Doing Everything Else, with Ruth Gotian* (episode 591)
• The Key Elements of a Powerful Personal Brand, with Goldie Chan* (episode 757)

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Martin Dubin is a clinical psychologist, serial entrepreneur, business coach, and adviser to C-suite executives and Silicon Valley entrepreneurs. He has founded several companies, including a multimillion-dollar health-care company where he also served as CEO. He is the author of Blindspotting: How to See What’s Holding You Back as a Leader (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Whenever I ask leaders, “What’s getting in the way of you moving forward?” the most common answer I hear is, “Myself.” In this episode, Marty and I explore what’s likely holding you back and how you can take the first steps to get traction.

• Many leaders don’t recognize the need for change and succumb to an identity blindspot.
• You don’t have to change your identity, but there’s a mismatch between role and identity, that’s a major problem.
• Shifting your identity is not changing who you are. Identities help us to sort through people and situations so we know who we are in relation to them.
• An identity that many have worked before can get in the way today. Common ones are: imposter, independent thinker, rule follower, unworthy, entitled, rebel, and peacemaker.
• Look back through your calendar over the past three months and determine how well your activities match up with the identity your role demands.
• Embody the new identity you are aiming to shift to, even if you’re not yet feeling it.

• Blindspotting: How to See What’s Holding You Back as a Leader by Marty Dubin (Amazon, Bookshop)*

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• Six Questions Every Leader Should Ask Themselves, with Margaret Andrews (episode 750)
• How to See What Others Miss, with Kirstin Ferguson (episode 758)
• Show Up Better, Faster, with Claude Silver (episode 762)

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Elizabeth Lotardo is a consultant, writer, and online instructor who helps organizations drive emotional engagement. Elizabeth writes for Harvard Business Review, is a Top Voice on LinkedIn, and the author of Leading Yourself: Find More Joy, Meaning, and Opportunities in the Job You Already Have. She’s also the author of the Harvard Business Review article, Stop Solving Your Team’s Problems for Them.

Jumping in to solve problems feels like we’re doing important work. The issue is that leaders need to be enabling work – both for scale and to grow the skills of others. In this conversation, Elizabeth and I detailed how to get out of the trap of solving your team’s problems for them.

• Jumping in to solve a problem feels good in the moment for both parties, but creates long-term obstacles.
• The other extreme, asking people to only come with solutions, often shuts down learning for both parties.
• Shifting a habit of solving your team’s problems will feel awkward at first – both for your team and you.
• Rather than solving the problem for them, help remove the obstacle.
• Support doesn’t just have to come from the manager. Often, looking at the situation together will help surface what kind of support would actually help.
• We often assume that people are coming to us for answers. Sometimes, they just need to be heard.

Five questions that will help your team step up:

1. What have you tried?
2. What–or who–is getting in the way of tackling this?
3. What support do you need?
4. What would you do if you were in my seat?
5. Is there anything else I should know?

• Stop Solving Your Team’s Problems for Them by Elizabeth Lotardo
• Leading Yourself: Find More Joy, Meaning, and Opportunities in the Job You Already Have by Elizabeth Lotardo (Amazon, Bookshop)*

• The Way to Stop Rescuing People From Their Problems, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 284)
• Where Senior Leaders Can Better Support Middle Managers, with Emily Field (episode 650)
• The Key Norm of a High-Performing Team, with Vanessa Druskat (episode 753)

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Colonel Eileen M. Collins, USAF (retired), earned a place in history as the first American woman to pilot, and later to command, a space mission. She flew on the space shuttle four times, twice as commander – including the 2005 “return to flight” mission after the tragic Columbia accident. She is the subject of the documentary movie Spacewoman and author of the book Through the Glass Ceiling to the Stars: The Story of the First American Woman to Command a Space Mission (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

We all have times in our careers where all eyes are on us. In this conversation, Eileen and I explore the critical moments of her career and how she stayed grounded while soaring among the stars.

• Until we are tested, we don’t know what we are capable of.
• Nerves creep in at times for all of us. When they do, it’s helpful to think about representing your role instead of representing yourself.
• When decisions become difficult, always come back to, “What’s the mission?”
• Train for the skill, not for the task.
• During high-stakes times, remember your family and personal life. They will help you stay grounded.

• Through the Glass Ceiling to the Stars: The Story of the First American Woman to Command a Space Mission by Eileen Collins (Amazon, Bookshop)*
• Spacewoman documentary, featuring Eileen Collins

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• How to Lead and Retain High Performers, with Ruth Gotian (episode 567)
• The Way to Handle Q&A, with Matt Abrahams (episode 681)
• How to Start the Top Job, with Scott Keller (episode 752)

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Claude Silver is on a mission to revolutionize leadership, talent, and workplace culture. She is Chief Heart Officer at VaynerX and partners with CEO Gary Vaynerchuk to drive their success. Claude has earned Campaign US’s Female Frontier Award, and AdWeek’s Changing the Game Award and she’s the author of Be Yourself at Work: The Groundbreaking Power of Showing Up, Standing Out, and Leading from the Heart (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

We’ve all heard the advice to be ourselves at work. It’s easier said than done. In this conversation, Claude and I explore how we can actually move past some of the unhelpful self-talk so that we can show up better, faster.

• We all have songs that play in our heads. When the song isn’t working, it’s time to change it.
• Labels are for soup cans, not people. Stop treating negative self-talk as gospel.
• Begin by identifying the label you’ve put on yourself that’s harming you. When it’s hard to see a harmful label, use times of either reflection or agitation to help surface it.
• Find the internal evidence for this label and record what confirms this belief and also what challenges it. If that’s hard, invite someone else (a partner, friend, or therapist) to help you see it more objectively.
• Evolve by creating a new mantra for who you are becoming. If it doesn’t seem doable today, ask yourself if you can envision it being true in the future.

• Be Yourself at Work: The Groundbreaking Power of Showing Up, Standing Out, and Leading from the Heart by Claude Silver (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

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• How to Tame Your Inner Critic, with Tara Mohr (episode 232)
• How to Stand Up for Yourself, with Sunita Sah (episode 715)
• When It Feels Like You Don’t Belong, with Muriel Wilkins (episode 756)

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Dave shares the results of the 2025 listener survey and previews what’s next for Coaching for Leaders. If you’re not already getting the weekly update and wish to receive Dave’s forthcoming FocusFive messages, join the free membership for access.

Steve Blank is an Adjunct Professor at Stanford and co-founder of the Gordian Knot Center for National Security Innovation. Credited with launching the Lean Startup movement and the curriculums for the National Science Foundation Innovation Corps and Hacking for Defense and Diplomacy, he’s changed how startups are built, how entrepreneurship is taught, how science is commercialized, and how companies and the government innovate. Steve is the author of The Four Steps to the Epiphany and The Startup Owner’s Manual and is the author of his recent article at steveblank.com: Blind to Disruption: The CEOs Who Missed the Future.

Leaders may see the future coming, but we aren’t always incentivized to act on it. In this conversation, Steve and I discuss what we can learn from the common patterns of disruption so we don’t miss what’s next.

• In the 1890s, there were approximately 4,000 carriage and wagon makers in the United States. Only one company made the transition to automobiles.
• In each of the three companies that survived, it was the founders, not hired CEOs, that drove the transition.
• Studebaker recognized that it wasn’t in the business of carriages; it was in the business of mobility.
• Clayton Christensen taught us that disruption begins with inferior products that incumbents don’t take seriously.
• The real problem isn’t that companies can’t see the future. It’s that they are structurally disincentivized to act on it.
• Parsing innovation theatre vs. innovation means paying attention to what’s actually shipping. If nothing is and you want to innovate, look elsewhere.
• Bubbles in the market are normal. Timing may be off, but that doesn’t mean disruption isn’t happening.

• Blind to Disruption: The CEOs Who Missed the Future by Steve Blank

• How to Start Seeing Around Corners, with Rita McGrath (episode 430)
• How to Build an Invincible Company, with Alex Osterwalder (episode 470)
• How to Pivot Quickly, with Steve Blank (episode 476)

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Shannon Minifie is the CEO of Box of Crayons, a learning and development company that helps unleash the power of curiosity to create connected and engaged company cultures. They are the organization behind the bestselling book The Coaching Habit by Michael Bungay Stanier. Shannon and her team recently released a report along with the Harris Poll titled Navigating a Fractured Workplace: How Relational Curiosity increases engagement, trust, and productivity.

Of course, you’ve heard that being curious and coach-like will help in leadership. But sometimes the very thing we think we’re doing well is actually getting in the way. In this conversation, Shannon and I explore the kind of curiosity that leaders often miss.

• 5-6 hours of the average workweek is lost to the fear of making mistakes.
• A strong majority of leaders say employees are expressing a desire for more feedback, and a majority also say that people are unable to receive hard feedback.
• Relationships are the core of these conflicting messages. Without a relationship of trust, helpful feedback often doesn’t land that way.
• Intellectual curiosity helps us learn what we don’t know. Relationship curiosity helps the other person learn what they don’t know.
• Ask yourself: what is my goal in asking this question?
• Rather than asking a question that starts with a “why,” consider asking a question that starts with a “what.”

The 7 Essential Questions:

1. What’s on your mind?
2. And what else?
3. What’s the real challenge here for you?
4. What do you want?
5. How can I help?
6. If you’re saying yes to this, what are you saying no to?
7. What was most useful for you?

• Navigating a Fractured Workplace: How Relational Curiosity Increases Engagement, Trust, and Productivity.
• Interactive Learning Preview: Invest in the Power of Curiosity
• The Coaching Habit* by Michael Bungay Stanier

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• These Coaching Questions Get Results, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 237)
• How to Ask Better Questions, with David Marquet (episode 454)
• The Way to Be More Coach-Like, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 458)

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Ruchika T. Malhotra is the founder of Candour, a global inclusion strategy firm that has worked with some of the world’s biggest organizations. She’s been recognized multiple times by Thinkers50 and co-wrote one of Harvard Business Review’s top 100 most-read articles in history: Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome. She is the author of Inclusion on Purpose, MIT Press’s top-selling book of 2022 and now her newest book, Uncompete: Rejecting Competition to Unlock Success (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

A lot of people think about work as a competition for resources. But what if, by inviting others to the table, you created more for everyone? In this conversation, Ruchika and I explore the opportunity for all of us to uncompete.

• Many of us are so socialized to compete that we don’t realize the benefits of collective collaboration.
• Reach out to someone who inspires you. Praising someone for something awesome about them, without an accompanying ask, is so rare.
• Display genuine curiosity. Don’t confuse “nice” small talk for depth. Ask bigger questions that get to the heart of who people are.
• As you build trust, talk numbers. In the professional context, real relationships of trust demand this kind of transparency.
• Take regular stock of relationships. Take people at their word and also watch how their actions line up – or don’t.
• Invite others to the table. The bigger your circle, the more you create for everybody.

• Uncompete: Rejecting Competition to Unlock Success by Ruchika T. Malhotra (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• End Imposter Syndrome in Your Organization, with Jodi-Ann Burey (episode 556)
• How to Create Inclusive Hiring Practices, with Ruchika Tulshyan (episode 589)
• Doing Better Than Zero-Sum Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641)

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Kirstin Ferguson has been recognized globally by Thinkers50 as one of the top 50 management thinkers in the world and is the recipient of the 2023 Distinguished Leadership Award. She was an officer in the Royal Australian Air Force, and then went on to lead an international consulting firm as CEO, before serving on the boards of major publicly listed, private, and non-profit organizations. She is the author of Women Kind, Head & Heart, and her newest book Blindspotting: How to See What Others Miss (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

If we stop to think about it, almost all of us recognize that we have blind spots. Given that reality, anything we can do that helps us see what others might miss will help us lead better. In this conversation, Kirsten and I explore the mindsets and practices that will help us uncover more of our blind spots.

• Experts are better at knowing when they are right, but also less likely to show appropriate doubt when they could be wrong.
• There’s a time to be a seeker and a time to be a knower. Both are important in different situations, but leaders in many situations would benefit from more seeking.
• Blindspotting is about calibration, not hesitation.
• Accept your intellectual limitations. A key way to do this is saying these four words more: “I don’t know yet.”
• Disentangling your ego will help your blind spot better. Shift away from your pride a bit by separating yourself from your knowledge and expertise.
• Hunt down your biases. Admitting they exist is step one. Model vulnerability by talking about your past mistakes both with yourself and with others.

• Blindspotting: How to See What Others Miss by Kirstin Ferguson (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• Getting Better at Reading the Room, with Kirstin Ferguson (episode 651)
• How to Find What’s Missing, with Jeff Wetzler (episode 732)
• How to Teach Your Expertise to Others, with Roger Kneebone (episode 743)

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Goldie Chan is the founder of Warm Robots, a social media strategy and creative agency, and she is herself a creative, keynote speaker, author, and cancer survivor. She was named the “Oprah of LinkedIn” by Huffington Post, and her creative video channel won LinkedIn Top Voice for Social Media. She is the author of Personal Branding for Introverts (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Many of us aspire to have a powerful personal brand, but it’s not always clear where to start. In this conversation, Goldie and I zero in on the five elements that matter most – and what you can do to get started.

Five C’s of personal branding:

• Clarity: Surface it by determining three words you want to be associated with.
• Consistency: The internet is for introverts. Find the medium where you can show up often and that plays to your strengths.
• Competency: Rather than promoting yourself, promote the ideas and practices you stand for through your experience.
• Confidence: Ego is when you shout who you are to a room, and confidence is when you know who you are in a room.
• Community: Join in on conversations with people discussing what you care about. Find these communities or build your own.

• Personal Branding for Introverts by Goldie Chan (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• The Four Critical Stories Leaders Need For Influence, with David Hutchens (episode 148)
• The Way to Get Noticed by Key Stakeholders, with Daphne E. Jones (episode 614)
• Your Reputation is Your Currency, with Maha Abouelenein (episode 703)

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Muriel Wilkins is the founder and CEO of Paravis Partners and a sought-after C-suite adviser and executive coach with a twenty-year track record of helping senior leaders take their performance to the next level. She is the coauthor of Own the Room and the host of the Harvard Business Review podcast Coaching Real Leaders. She’s just released her newest book, Leadership Unblocked: Break Through the Beliefs That Limit Your Potential (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

You may have spent years aiming for the leadership role you now have. But now, once you’re in the job, it can be really disorienting to feel like you don’t belong. In this conversation, Muriel and I explore this reality that a lot of leaders face and what do when you run into it.

• Feeling like you don’t belong is a normal and common reality at inflection points in your career.
• A vicious cycle can emerge: you’re waiting to be included while others are waiting for you to engage.
• While you can’t control others, you can break the part of the pattern you have control of.
• Define your value proposition. What gets missed when you don’t show up?
• Remind yourself of shared goals or values with the group. This prevents the small stuff from distracting you as much.
• Identify a few supportive people and build relationships with them.

• Leadership Unblocked: Break Through the Beliefs That Limit Your Potential by Muriel Wilkins (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

• How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)
• How to Start Better With Peers, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 635)
• The Habits That Hold Leaders Back, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 696)

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David Hutchens works with leaders around the world to find, craft, and tell their most urgent stories for the purpose of creating shared meaning, preserving culture, disseminating learning, and speeding change in organizations. He has taught the Storytelling Leader program at some of the most influential organizations, including NASA, Paypal, Loreal Paris, Cisco, Walmart, Google, and FedEx. He’s written many books, including the Circle of the 9 Muses, Story Dash, and The Leadership Story Deck.

When organizational change is happening, leaders need to be intentional about lining up with culture, especially if it’s the time to shift that culture just a bit. We often do the logistics well, but we miss the power of both the human and emotional connections. In this episode, David and I discuss how story can help us make a meaningful shift.

• The organizations that are being intentional about culture are also being intentional about story.
• Getting beyond the logistics of changes and leaning first into humanity and emotion help people frame cultural shifts.
• Leaders go first. Embodied stories from leaders are surprising, counter-cultural, and repeatable.
• Asking for stories is rarely sufficient. Instead, invite stories through intentional prompts like, “Tell me about a time you felt more engaged, alive, and happiest in your work here.”
• Received stories are the ones told by employees. Adding an emotion word to an invitation such as, “What’s a time you were proud?” often surfaces more genuine stories.

David is now a Coaching for Leaders expert partner. Connect with him to discover how he might support your organization in making a meaningful cultural shift via our partners page or email him directly at david@davidhutchens.com.

• Circle of the 9 Muses: A Storytelling Field Guide for Innovators and Meaning Makers by David Hutchens (Amazon, Bookshop)*
• Story Dash: Find, Develop, and Activate Your Most Valuable Business Stories…In Just a Few Hours by David Hutchens (Amazon)*
• Leadership Story Deck by David Hutchens (Amazon)*

• Leadership Means You Go First, with Keith Ferrazzi (episode 488)
• How to Start Finding Useful Stories, with David Hutchens (episode 593)
• How to Bring Out the Best in People, with Donna Hicks (episode 724)

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Monica Chartier is a group product manager in the technology industry. Her work has centered on supporting a global product experience, getting a million visitors a day. In addition to her e-commerce and technical experience, she indexes heavily on coach-like leadership with her team and also inside our community as one of our Coaching for Leaders Fellows.

In this conversation, Monica and I explore a need inside the Coaching for Leaders membership community and how we used the design thinking process to approach it. We outline the five key steps we followed and how you might do the same to address a problem inside your own organization.

Five steps to solve a problem using design thinking:

1. Empathy: Start with Intentional Listening and Observation.
2. Define: Clarify the Real Problem to Solve.
3. Ideate: Co-Create Ideas and Form Testable Hypotheses.
4. Prototype: Start Small, Learn Fast.
5. Test, Learn, and Adapt: Make Iteration a Leadership Habit.

Access Monica’s detailed guide (PDF download)

• Monica Chartier on LinkedIn

• The Way to Make Struggles More Productive, with Sarah Stein Greenberg (episode 569)
• How to Prevent a Team From Repeating Mistakes, with Robert “Cujo” Teschner (episode 660)
• How to Lead Engaging Meetings, with Jess Britt (episode 721)

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Vanessa Druskat is an associate professor at the Peter T. Paul College of Business and Economics at the University of New Hampshire. She advises leaders and teams at over a dozen Fortune 500 and Fortune Global 500 companies and wrote the best-selling Harvard Business Review article (with S. Wolff) on emotionally intelligent teams that has been chosen many times for inclusion in HBR’s most valued articles. She is the author of The Emotionally Intelligent Team: Building Collaborative Groups that Outperform the Rest (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

It’s easy to assume that a good start for a great team is getting the smartest people together. That does help, but it’s not the critical factor in whether a team performs. In this conversation, Vanessa and I discuss why the word belonging makes such a difference.

• Raw talent of the individual and their own interpersonal skills don’t predict team performance.
• Belonging is critical for team performance. Leaders often miss this because they already feel like they belong.
• Team members understanding each other is the first and most critical norm.
• Beginning meetings with check-ins or gallery walks helps people understand each other, even if it’s not discussed extensively.
• Inviting people to bring everyday objects to illustrate a more complex point helps make understanding accessible.
• The leader sets the tone, but it’s the interaction between team members that makes the difference.

• The Emotionally Intelligent Team: Building Collaborative Groups that Outperform the Rest (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Vanessa Druskat

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• How to Engage Remote Teams, with Tsedal Neeley (episode 537)
• Team Collaboration Supports Growth Mindset, with Mary Murphy (episode 695)
• How to Help People Connect at Work, with Wes Adams (episode 735)

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Scott Keller is a senior partner at McKinsey, where he coleads the firm’s global CEO Excellence work within the Strategy & Corporate Finance Practice and serves as a global leader in the Organization Practice. He’s a New York Times bestselling author and trusted advisor to boards, CEOs, and senior leadership teams, with whom he guides multiyear, enterprise-wide transformations that shape the future of institutions. His colleagues and he are the authors of the new book, A CEO For All Seasons: Mastering the Cycles of Leadership (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

One of the most critical phases of taking on the top job is what you do at the start. Whether it’s stepping into the role as president, general manager, executive director, owner, or CEO, starting well can make all the difference. In this conversation, Scott and I explore how to begin in the best way possible.

• One-third to one-half of new CEOs are considered to be failing within eighteen months of taking the role. Many wish they’d handled the transition differently.
• New CEOs enter a reality distortion field of many bosses (the board), no peers, and ultimate accountability for everything. The best CEOs guard against this by not making it about them.
• Ask questions that aren’t about you, but the organization. Instead of, “How will I know if I’m successful?” ask, “How will we know if we’re winning?”
• Beginning with a listening tour is essential. People will tell you things when you’re new that they’ll never say two or three years later.
• Create a fact-based, one version of the truth. Once you know it, keep to a single narrative for everyone.
• Err towards complete candor in the toughest realities. Prepare intensely for moments of truth, when they need to happen.
• Set clear boundaries and stay extremely disciplined. Your narrative and first moves should guide how you frame these.

• A CEO For All Seasons: Mastering the Cycles of Leadership (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Carolyn Dewar, Scott Keller, Vikram Malhotra, and Kurt Strovink

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• How Top Leaders Influence Great Teamwork, with Scott Keller (episode 585)
• How to Genuinely Show Up for Others, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 590)
• How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)

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Neil Ghosh is a seasoned executive whose expertise spans the nonprofit, government, philanthropic, and private sectors. With 30+ years of experience, he has successfully launched and scaled both nonprofit and for-profit ventures, building teams, business models, partnerships, and strategies to drive impact and support vulnerable populations in more than 50 countries. His book is Do More Good: Inspiring Lessons from Extraordinary People (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

There are many differences in the world today, and those differences influence leaders just like everybody else. That’s why Neil Ghosh has this invitation for us: “Never let age or ideology come between learning and growth.” In this conversation, Neil and I explore how we can lean in on great leadership through our common humanity.

• In anyone we know, we can always find one positive attribute that we can learn from.
• Never let age or ideology come between learning and growth.
• The Dalai Lama reminds us to offer compassion and kindness, regardless of whether the recipient is in need.
• Give back without expecting fanfare. Help people get what they want through peer mentoring.
• Use your platform to promote unity and to be an advocate for others.
• Befriend people who have different views. Join or start a book club that intentionally selects books from diverse viewpoints.

• Do More Good: Inspiring Lessons from Extraordinary People (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Neil Ghosh

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• How to Connect with People Better, with Charles Duhigg (episode 670)
• Turning Down the Temperature on Outrage, with Karthik Ramanna (episode 711)
• How to Bring Out the Best in People, with Donna Hicks (episode 724)

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Margaret Andrews is a seasoned executive, academic leader, speaker, and instructor. Her course MYLO (Manage Yourself to Lead Others) has become the most popular professional development program at Harvard. She is the author of Manage Yourself to Lead Others: Why Great Leadership Begins with Self-Understanding (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Virtually every book, course, and program on leadership begins with self-understanding. That’s no accident; it’s because managing ourselves helps us lead others more effectively. In this episode, Margaret and I explore the six key questions that will help you manage yourself better.

• When people are asked to describe the attributes of their best bosses, 85% of the responses highlight interpersonal skills.
• Our differences are our features, not our flaws. Knowing yourself well helps you lead others better.

Six Questions for Self-Understanding:

1. Who, and whose thinking, has shaped you as an individual?
2. What situations and events have helped shape your perspective?
3. What does success look like for you?
4. What are your core values, and how have these values changed throughout your life?
5. To what extent are you aware of—and allow yourself to feel—your emotions?
6. What feedback have you received over the years about how your actions and behaviors impact others?

• Manage Yourself to Lead Others: Why Great Leadership Begins with Self-Understanding by Margaret Andrews (Amazon, Bookshop)*

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• Enhance Your Self-Awareness, with Daniel Goleman (episode 353)
• The Way to Be More Self-Aware, with Tasha Eurich (episode 442)
• Discover Who You Are, with Hortense le Gentil (episode 459)

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Mark Crowley is a pioneer in workplace leadership, a speaker, and the bestselling author of Lead from the Heart. He is the host of the Lead from the Heart podcast. His new book is The Power of Employee Well-Being: Move Beyond Engagement to Build Flourishing Teams (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

When I talk with leaders, many of them tell me that it’s really hard to decide on how much recognition to give people vs. constructive or critical feedback. In this conversation, Mark and I highlight the ideal ratio to calibrate our communications so that we support people’s well-being while also helping them grow.

• Despite the focus on employee engagement, actual engagement scores are the same or worse than a decade ago.
• Post-COVID, there’s a massive move towards employee well-being. This is good for both the organization and the employee.
• An ideal positivity ratio is 4:1 in many relationships. That’s four positive interactions for every constructive or critical interaction.
• We react more strongly to negative influence than positive influence, thus the need for a ratio favoring the positive.
• Positive interactions include optimism, enthusiasm, solutions orientation, encouragement, kindness, thoughtfulness, approachability, interest, and appreciation.
• Leaders still must make unpopular decisions, set expectations, and give critical feedback. Positive interactions are in addition to these, not instead of them.

• The Power of Employee Well-Being: Move Beyond Engagement to Build Flourishing Teams (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Mark Crowley

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• How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)
• Gallup Findings on the Changing Nature of Work, with Jim Harter (episode 409)
• The Way to Notice People Better, with Zach Mercurio (episode 733)

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Since his days as a professional jazz trumpet player, Colin Fisher has been fascinated by group dynamics. Today, he is an Associate Professor of Organizations and Innovation at University College London’s School of Management, researching the hidden processes of helping groups and teams in situations requiring creativity, improvisation, and complex decision-making. He is the author of The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups (Amazon, Bookshop).

Most of us assume that the best thing we can do for our teams is to be a great coach as they’re working together. That absolutely helps, but the research says that only 10% of group effectiveness is what we do once the team is underway. In this conversation, Colin and I explore how to get a lot better at the other 90%.

• The house always wins. If the structure isn’t right for the team to succeed, little else matters in the long run.
• Leaders tend to put a majority of their attention on coaching teams in progress instead of the more significant work at the start of structuring and launching teams.
• Work on fixing structural problems before you focus on fixing the process.
• 60% of group effectiveness is determined by structure, 30% by the launch, and 10% by expert coaching.
• Critical for structure is the team goal being clear, important, and challenging. Be sure to document it.
• Negotiate roles, tasks, and jobs to support structure. Determine early how to articulate progress and highlight small wins.
• Ask yourself if the group has the right people to achieve the objective. Deep diversity that supports the goal is essential.
• Surface discussions about norms at the start, especially related to communication and storage of information.
• At a team launch, articulate why everyone is there, discuss key norms, and schedule a midpoint to reflect and align.

• The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups (Amazon, Bookshop) by Colin Fisher

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• How to Create Team Guidelines, with Susan Gerke (episode 192)
• How to Generate Quick Wins, with Andy Kaufman (episode 496)
• How to Increase Team Performance Through Clarity, with David Burkus (episode 657)

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Anne-Laure Le Cunff is an award-winning neuroscientist, entrepreneur, and writer. She is the founder of Ness Labs and author of its widely read newsletter, a researcher at the ADHD Research Lab, and an advisor for the Applied Neuroscience Association. She is the author of Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World*.

We all get into a rut sometimes. Once we notice we’re in one, our tendency is to work really hard to get out of it. In this conversation, Anne-Laure and I explore how starting with something tiny is often the better bet.

• SMART goals assume we know exactly where we’re heading. Most of the time, that’s not clear.
• A tiny experiment focuses on outputs instead of outcomes.
• To build more comfort with uncertainty, find one small place to experiment.
• Our brain uses growth loops to constantly adjust our trajectory. We don’t go in circles; we grow in circles.
• Improving growth isn’t about knowledge or skill; it’s thinking about your thinking, questioning your responses, and knowing your mind.
• A simple, 5-minute tool is Plus Minus Next. It surfaces what’s working, what’s not, and your next steps.

• Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World* by Anne-Laure Le Cunff

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• How to Become the Person You Want to Be, with James Clear (episode 376)
• How to Change Your Behavior, with BJ Fogg (episode 507)
• How to Create Space, with Juliet Funt (episode 540)

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Lorraine K. Lee is passionate about helping ambitious professionals go from invisible to unforgettable in the modern workplace. She is recognized as a LinkedIn Top Voice in workplace communication and presence and spent over a decade as a founding editor at top tech firms like LinkedIn and Prezi, where she worked on core products including the LinkedIn Daily News module and LinkedIn Newsletters. She is the author of Unforgettable Presence: Get Seen, Gain Influence, and Catapult Your Career.

Small talk. We all love to hate it – and we also know that most of us will end up in small talk with someone who’s got a lot of influence. It may be an executive or an external stakeholder. Either way, handling it well can open up doors. In this conversation, Lorraine and I detail how to make small talk go better.

• Small talk is the starting point before a deeper relationship.
• Most opportunities for executive small talk are predictable. Preparation will help you speak well.
• Set the tone with positive energy. Rather than dominating the interaction or passively reacting to it, thread your conversations so each party shares equally.
• At the office, be ready with a sentence or two about who you work with and what you’re working on. Relationships and outcomes are more memorable than titles.
• At social events, share a hobby or interest and ask about theirs. Keep questions open-ended as you would with a friend.
• Have a topic ready to go for quick interactions. Sharing a thought about a book or podcast that relates to your organization is a useful resource to have at the ready.
• Review your go-to topics regularly so that you always have a relevant conversation topic.

• Unforgettable Presence: Get Seen, Gain Influence, and Catapult Your Career by Lorraine K. Lee
• Lorraine’s weekly newsletter
• Lorraine’s career tips on LinkedIn Learning

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• Executive Presence with Your Elevator Speech, with Tom Henschel (episode 316)
• How to Talk to People Who Intimidate You, with Shandy Welch (episode 706)
• A Key Tactic for Way Better Conversations, with Alison Wood Brooks (episode 717)

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Mort Sherman is the retired Senior Associate Executive Director of the American Association of School Administrators, known for his visionary leadership as a superintendent dedicated to elevating academic standards and promoting equitable education. Throughout his career, he championed initiatives that addressed achievement gaps and empowered communities to foster inclusive, impactful learning environments. He is the author, along with his daughter Sara Leila Sherman, of Resonant Minds: The Transformative Power of Music, One Note at a Time.

So many of us love music, and it’s often at the core of a lot of our personal lives, celebrations, and emotions. But we don’t often think about how we can leverage its power at work. In this conversation, Mort and I explore how music can help us set the tone for better leadership.

• One way to nurture our teams and ourselves is a continual call for leaders, and music is an avenue we don’t often consider.
• Using music as mindful action, coupled with executive function skills, supports the habits of successful leadership.
• Start meetings with music or mindfulness exercises for collective focus, productive discussions, and creative outcomes.
• Create team playlists to build community. Combine playlists with meetings to help support trust and respect.
• Use music to reinforce a message or theme, tied to the needs of the moment.

• Why Cooks Cook from The Bear

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• The Power of Leadership Through Hospitality, with Will Guidara (episode 688)
• How to Better Manage Your Emotions, with Ethan Kross (episode 719)
• What Leaders Should Learn from Taylor Swift, with Kevin Evers (episode 739)

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Over an 18-year career at Google, Jenny Wood grew from entry-level to executive, most recently leading a large operations team that helped drive billions of revenue per year. In 2021, she started a passion project within Google called Own Your Career, which grew to one of the largest career development programs in Google’s history. Her work has since been featured in Harvard Business Review, Entrepreneur, and Forbes, and she’s now the author of Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It*.

Leadership is about serving others – and it’s also ensuring that we take care of ourselves along the way. Sometimes leaders over-index on helping their organizations and teams, to their own detriment. In this conversation, Jenny and I explore where being a little more selfish might actually be better for everyone.

• Selfish redefined means having the courage to stand up for what you want.
• People want to join a winning team, even if they don’t say that out loud.
• Guilt is natural, but always caving to it is self-defeating.
• Don’t do work that’s not actually promotable. There’s no prize for an empty inbox.
• A belief like “I owe it to them,” may signal an over-commitment to the organization. They will not love you back.
• Appreciate truth when you get it, but don’t sign up for a burned-out boss.
• It’s inefficient to always be in the lead. Draft in another leader’s wake.

• Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It* by Jenny Wood

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• Align Your Calendar to What Matters, with Nir Eyal (episode 431)
• The Ways Leadership Can Derail Us, with Bill George (episode 596)
• The Path to More Joy in Work and Life, with Judith Joseph (episode 734)

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Roger Kneebone directs the Imperial College Centre for Engagement and Simulation Science and the Royal College of Music–Imperial College Centre for Performance Science. He researches what experts from different fields can learn from one another, including a creative team of clinicians, computer scientists, musicians, magicians, potters, puppeteers, tailors, and fighter pilots. He is the author of Expert: Understanding the Path to Mastery*.

Many leaders get into the roles they have because they are the experts in their work. But once you’re leading, the work is less about being the expert and more about teaching your expertise to others. In this conversation, Roger and I explore how to get better at doing this well.

• Experts don’t often recognize that they are experts.
• A characteristic of many experts is a dissatisfaction with where they are and an awareness that they could do better.
• Experts should notice what’s missing and what would be most helpful to the less experienced person.
• Effective teachers zero in on one thing at a time, even if they notice many areas for improvement.
• Passing along expertise is not just the skills themselves but the perspective of why each skill matters.
• Land in the zone of proximal development. The skill should neither be too easy nor too difficult.

• Expert: Understanding the Path to Mastery* by Roger Kneebone

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• Help People Learn Through Powerful Teaching, with Pooja Agarwal (episode 421)
• The Art of Mentoring Well, with Robert Lefkowitz (episode 599)
• How to Handle High-Pressure Situations, with Dan Dworkis (episode 701)

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Sabina Nawaz is an executive coach who advises C-level executives and teams at Fortune 500 corporations, government agencies, nonprofits, and academic institutions. During her 14-year tenure at Microsoft, she went from managing software development teams to leading the company’s executive development and succession planning efforts for over 11,000 managers and nearly a thousand executives, advising Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer directly. She’s the author of You’re the Boss: Become the Manager You Want to Be (and Others Need)*.

Every leader I know intends to be authentic. Unfortunately, we sometimes use authenticity as an excuse not to do the critical work of calibrating our actions. In this conversation, Sabina and I discuss how to avoid that trap so we can show up more genuinely for others.

• “Yeah, but…” signals justification and holds us back from what we most need to learn.
• Your success comes despite unhelpful traits, not because of them.
• Pure authenticity is a complete fallacy. Authenticity is not singular.
• We sometimes use authenticity as an excuse not to do the important work of calibrating our actions.
• Don’t let the smokescreen of past “authenticity” get in the way of growth.
• Authenticity is not static. Reading your old past social media posts will remind you of this.
• When shifting, start with small experiments to nudge you in a new direction.

Language that may be warning signs of the authenticity trap:

• “That’s just how I am.”
• “I’m not the kind of person who…”
• “I’m not being true to myself if…”
• “That’s the way I’ve always done things, and it’s worked for me.”

• You’re the Boss: Become the Manager You Want to Be (and Others Need)* by Sabina Nawaz

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• How to Change Your Behavior, with BJ Fogg (episode 507)
• How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)
• The Habits That Hold Leaders Back, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 696)

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Minda Harts is a bestselling author, workplace consultant, and sought-after keynote speaker who is redefining what it means to build trust in the workplace. As the bestselling author of The Memo, Right Within, and You Are More Than Magic, Minda has empowered thousands to be their own best advocates and navigate workplace challenges with confidence. She has just released her newest book, Talk to Me Nice: The Seven Trust Languages for a Better Workplace.

Sometimes we assume that we’re helping by shielding people from difficult news. But as we all know, virtually everyone wants transparency from leaders. In this conversation, Minda shows us how to get better at it.

• You’re not helping by shielding people from difficult conversations.
• Most everyone assumes baseline behaviors of employees. Employees expect reciprocity through transparency.
• We often think about transparency with information that’s known. Just as important is clarity about what’s not known.
• Even when you can’t share news, you can put time and resources into what will help people handle a new reality when it arrives.
• Transparency provides clear, honest, and timely information.
• Promote transparency in roles. A job description is a helpful starting point for this.
• Good intentions do not mean good impact. When changes happen, communicate them as quickly as practical.

• Talk to Me Nice: The Seven Trust Languages for a Better Workplace* by Minda Harts

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• The Path Towards Trusting Relationships, with Edgar Schein and Peter Schein (episode 539)
• How to Help Difficult Conversations Go Better, with Sheila Heen (episode 655)
• Preparing for a Conversation with Someone You Don’t Trust, with Charles Feltman (episode 708)

Are you a talent development or human resources leader seeking a coach for an internal client? Coaching for Leaders has partnered with some of the top coaches in the world, including a number of past podcast guests. Help us make an introduction by visiting our Expert Partners Page and telling us what you’re seeking in a coach.

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Michael Bungay Stanier is best known for The Coaching Habit, the best-selling coaching book of the century and recognized as a classic. He was a Rhodes Scholar, and was recently awarded the coaching prize by Thinkers50. He’s now the host of the new Change Signal podcast.

If you’re doing change right, it’s going to be messy. In this conversation, Michael Bungay Stanier returns to show us where to start, the key mindsets to have, and the first steps for getting traction.

• If you’re doing change right, it’s going to be messy.
• Before you remove a fence, figure out why it’s there.
• Take inspiration from Emily Dickinson: “Tell all the truth but tell it slant.”
• Beware giving lip service to the emotional realities of change and then moving forward without really addressing them.
• Strategy is a living conversation. Run experiments. Fire bullets before cannonballs.
• Motivation is a critical factor in change. Better to be less efficient and have people with you than to force compliance with a “perfect” plan.

Emily Dickinson:

Tell all the truth but tell it slant —
Success in Circuit lies
Too bright for our infirm Delight
The Truth’s superb surprise
As Lightning to the Children eased
With explanation kind
The Truth must dazzle gradually
Or every man be blind —

• Change Signal podcast hosted by Michael Bungay Stanier
• The Coaching Habit* by Michael Bungay Stanier

• Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy (episode 571)
• How to Approach a Reorg, with Claire Hughes Johnson (episode 621)
• How to Prevent a Team From Repeating Mistakes, with Robert “Cujo” Teschner (episode 660)

Are you a talent development or human resources leader seeking a coach for an internal client? Coaching for Leaders has partnered with some of the top coaches in the world, including a number of past podcast guests. Help us make an introduction by visiting our Expert Partners Page and telling us what you’re seeking in a coach.

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Kevin Evers is a Senior Editor at Harvard Business Review. Passionate about shaping groundbreaking research and amplifying pioneering ideas, he has edited bestselling and award-winning books on high performance, creativity, innovation, digital disruption, marketing, and strategy. He is the author of There’s Nothing Like This: The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift*.

You may love her music. You may not. You may think she’s a business genius…or perhaps no. But one thing is for sure, you cannot ignore Taylor Swift. In this conversation, Kevin and I explore Swift’s strategic approach and what every leader can learn from her success.

• Swift knows exactly her “job to be done” and delivers on it consistently.
• Swift treats her fans’ emotions and experiences with respect, and they respond in kind.
• Andy Grove famously said that only the paranoid survive. It’s one of many traits that helps Swift stay successful.
• Swift’s transition to pop was promotion-focused rather than prevention-focused. She led the story of her transformation.
• Not only is Swift clear on her vision, but she regularly reflects on the difficult steps to get there.
• Swift is a remarkable example of antifragility. Not only does she withstand stress and shocks, but they make her stronger.

• There’s Nothing Like This: The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift* by Kevin Evers

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• Doing Better Than Zero Sum-Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641)
• The Reason People Make Buying Decisions, with Marcus Collins (episode 664)
• How to Keep Improving, with Maurice Ashley (episode 697)

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