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EMS 20/20

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EMS 20/20 is podcast hosted by two experienced Paramedics. Spencer Oliver and Christopher Pfingsten discuss real calls run by real responders and pull out the lessons you won't find in a text book. This podcast is aimed at Paramedic students, seasoned Paramedics looking to refresh, or any one interested in a deeper dive into pre-hospital health care.
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EMS 20/20 is podcast hosted by two experienced Paramedics. Spencer Oliver and Christopher Pfingsten discuss real calls run by real responders and pull out the lessons you won't find in a text book. This podcast is aimed at Paramedic students, seasoned Paramedics looking to refresh, or any one interested in a deeper dive into pre-hospital health care.
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Episodes

Page 5 · 50 per page
Published 2021-06-30

Trauma Induced Chaos

84 min
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Confusions sets in as a Paramedic attempts to locate a trauma patient and... their partner? The guys work their way through a chaotic scene, so listen and find out if this weeks crew finds the right ingredients to pull it all together.
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Confusions sets in as a Paramedic attempts to locate a trauma patient and... their partner? The guys work their way through a chaotic scene, so listen and find out if this weeks crew finds the right ingredients to pull it all together.
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Published 2021-06-23

Are We There Yet?

68 min
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The guys pick apart a call where the provides look too closely and find something no one saw coming, but only after challenging YOU, the listeners to come up with the best code 3 driving music! As we announced in this weeks episode, we want to hear your favorite code 3 (that's driving with lights and sirens) song! Add it in the comments below (feel free to tell us why). In two weeks we'll tell you which of the songs you submitted is our favorite and that person will win a prize!
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The guys pick apart a call where the provides look too closely and find something no one saw coming, but only after challenging YOU, the listeners to come up with the best code 3 driving music! As we announced in this weeks episode, we want to hear your favorite code 3 (that's driving with lights and sirens) song! Add it in the comments below (feel free to tell us why). In two weeks we'll tell you which of the songs you submitted is our favorite and that person will win a prize!
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Published 2021-06-16

Always Play the Odds

77 min
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The guys review a call that involves a COVID patient that really keeps trying to die and Spencer ruins French cuisine. Does the crew pull it out and save the day? Listen and find out!
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The guys review a call that involves a COVID patient that really keeps trying to die and Spencer ruins French cuisine. Does the crew pull it out and save the day? Listen and find out!
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Published 2021-06-10

One is (Almost) Never Enough

96 min
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Like frames in a hit movie about landing a plane in the Hudson River, EKG's are but a single moment in time. Dr. Seitz joins in this weeks episode and guys read YOUR responses from last weeks EKG. Does the crew make the right call? Listen and find out! NREMT tests looming? Need to refresh? Join Seitz and Sirens TODAY with the promo code EMS2020 for 20% off! https://www.seitzandsirens.com
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Like frames in a hit movie about landing a plane in the Hudson River, EKG's are but a single moment in time. Dr. Seitz joins in this weeks episode and guys read YOUR responses from last weeks EKG. Does the crew make the right call? Listen and find out! NREMT tests looming? Need to refresh? Join Seitz and Sirens TODAY with the promo code EMS2020 for 20% off! https://www.seitzandsirens.com
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Published 2021-06-02

Won the Battle, Lost the War

84 min
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A call that will make your jaw drop with just how many battles had to be fought just to lose out in the end. This one was a hard one to review, but the guys plowed through it and brought you over an hour of facepalming...
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A call that will make your jaw drop with just how many battles had to be fought just to lose out in the end. This one was a hard one to review, but the guys plowed through it and brought you over an hour of facepalming...
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Published 2021-05-26

The Petty Difference

61 min
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Petty assumptions get critically in the way as friction between crews cause some waves. Do they recover? Chris and Spencer pull out way too many lessons from just a single call in this weeks episode. 

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Petty assumptions get critically in the way as friction between crews cause some waves. Do they recover? Chris and Spencer pull out way too many lessons from just a single call in this weeks episode. 

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Published 2021-05-19

Use Restraint(s)

95 min
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In their 50th episode, Chris and Spencer analyze a call where a provider finds themselves one on one with a combative mental health patient. Could this have been avoided?
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In their 50th episode, Chris and Spencer analyze a call where a provider finds themselves one on one with a combative mental health patient. Could this have been avoided?
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Published 2021-05-12

All The Sound We Cannot Hear

78 min
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What would Spencer do becomes the name of the game as the guys pull apart a call that is more about what you can't hear than what you can. Does the crew pull it off? Listen and find out!
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What would Spencer do becomes the name of the game as the guys pull apart a call that is more about what you can't hear than what you can. Does the crew pull it off? Listen and find out!
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Published 2021-05-05

Syncope Suspects

69 min
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An absolutely killer episode where Chris is put to the test as he evaluates a syncope patient that... refuses care? Should they have refused? Does Chris miss something? Listen and find out!
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An absolutely killer episode where Chris is put to the test as he evaluates a syncope patient that... refuses care? Should they have refused? Does Chris miss something? Listen and find out!
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Published 2021-04-28

Legally Drunkabetic

53 min
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Spencer and Chris examine a case where the medical treatment goes smoothly... but the question remains: Who can refuse transport? And is sharing information with police a HIPAA violation? You asked for it, we delivered! Listen to find out!
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Spencer and Chris examine a case where the medical treatment goes smoothly... but the question remains: Who can refuse transport? And is sharing information with police a HIPAA violation? You asked for it, we delivered! Listen to find out!
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Published 2021-04-21

To Tube or Not to Tube...

65 min
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Two Paramedics approach a patient with vastly different treatment plans in mind... Chris and Spencer are called in to judge who is right and who is wrong. Can they do it? Is there even a clear winner? Find out!
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Two Paramedics approach a patient with vastly different treatment plans in mind... Chris and Spencer are called in to judge who is right and who is wrong. Can they do it? Is there even a clear winner? Find out!
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Published 2021-04-14

One of Our Own

97 min
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Sometimes we are put in the terrible position to treat one of our own! The guys call in Dr. Seitz from Seitz and Sirens to dissect the treatment of a reaction caused by a sneaky strawberry.
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Sometimes we are put in the terrible position to treat one of our own! The guys call in Dr. Seitz from Seitz and Sirens to dissect the treatment of a reaction caused by a sneaky strawberry.
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Published 2021-03-31

Peanut Butter Spider Sandwich

81 min
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The Delayed Sequence Intubation episode you've all been waiting for! Plus Spiders! Plus Mmmhopps beer! What a time to be alive, and hopefully the crew in this call can keep a very sick patient from falling off the oxygenation cliff!
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The Delayed Sequence Intubation episode you've all been waiting for! Plus Spiders! Plus Mmmhopps beer! What a time to be alive, and hopefully the crew in this call can keep a very sick patient from falling off the oxygenation cliff!
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Published 2021-03-24

Minor Mistake, Major Consequence

73 min
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The guys break down a call where too much of a good thing is administered with catastrophic consequences. What could have prevented this, or could it have been prevented at all? And what should happen to the provider who made the mistake? Listen as this weeks episode explores how easily things can go way wrong!
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The guys break down a call where too much of a good thing is administered with catastrophic consequences. What could have prevented this, or could it have been prevented at all? And what should happen to the provider who made the mistake? Listen as this weeks episode explores how easily things can go way wrong!
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Published 2021-03-17

We're Gonna Need A Bigger Rig

87 min
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Mandy Krekora joins the guys to answer your airway questions (RSI vs DSI, anyone?) and dive into a hectic airway nightmare that involves a sleepy giant, vanilla Ensure and an oddly placed trashcan. In addition to being on EMS 20/20, you can learn even more from Mandy on April 5th, 6th, 8th, and 9th as she puts on the Bariatric Airway Bootcamp, a unique and rare opportunity to practice airway techniques on actual bariatric cadavers in the Denver, Colorado area! Follow the link below: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/bariatric-airway-bootcamp-tickets-140628909855?fbclid=IwAR1-fgt6TAWSMGk2ME8YLtEDhwWnzcODZfVBMHfmX2d1A8UpAGspso_pD4k
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Mandy Krekora joins the guys to answer your airway questions (RSI vs DSI, anyone?) and dive into a hectic airway nightmare that involves a sleepy giant, vanilla Ensure and an oddly placed trashcan. In addition to being on EMS 20/20, you can learn even more from Mandy on April 5th, 6th, 8th, and 9th as she puts on the Bariatric Airway Bootcamp, a unique and rare opportunity to practice airway techniques on actual bariatric cadavers in the Denver, Colorado area! Follow the link below: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/bariatric-airway-bootcamp-tickets-140628909855?fbclid=IwAR1-fgt6TAWSMGk2ME8YLtEDhwWnzcODZfVBMHfmX2d1A8UpAGspso_pD4k
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Published 2021-03-10

Shoulda Woulda Coulda

63 min
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Chris and Spence review a call where a missed opportunity leads to... an accurate diagnosis? The guys analyze a call that illustrates that while recovering from a mistake is good, not making the mistake in the first place is probably a wee bit better.
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Chris and Spence review a call where a missed opportunity leads to... an accurate diagnosis? The guys analyze a call that illustrates that while recovering from a mistake is good, not making the mistake in the first place is probably a wee bit better.
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Published 2021-03-03

The Critical Truth

69 min
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Spencer and Chris go over an interfacility transfer gone awry... and they dig deep into the issue of crew integrity. A septic patient with a drug abuse history misses out on critical treatments that may have cost them.
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Spencer and Chris go over an interfacility transfer gone awry... and they dig deep into the issue of crew integrity. A septic patient with a drug abuse history misses out on critical treatments that may have cost them.
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Published 2021-02-24

Gut Feeling

78 min
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A psychic EMT makes a prediction... but are his psychic abilities any match for another responders experience? Does anyone even make a mistake in this episode? Find out as the guys explore an unpredictable (maybe) call!
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A psychic EMT makes a prediction... but are his psychic abilities any match for another responders experience? Does anyone even make a mistake in this episode? Find out as the guys explore an unpredictable (maybe) call!
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Published 2021-02-17

Everything But The Gun

56 min
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In this week's episode, Spencer and Chris dissect a call where two problems met: a tired crew and an oddly presenting patient. Did the crew overcome their fatigue to perform in a way that makes EMS proud? Spoiler: Nope.
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In this week's episode, Spencer and Chris dissect a call where two problems met: a tired crew and an oddly presenting patient. Did the crew overcome their fatigue to perform in a way that makes EMS proud? Spoiler: Nope.
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Published 2021-02-10

When School Gets It Wrong

76 min
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Chris and Spencer examine a call where a patient goes from pretty OK to really, really bad. Is this something that school could have prepared the crew for? Or is this one of those reality check moments?
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Chris and Spencer examine a call where a patient goes from pretty OK to really, really bad. Is this something that school could have prepared the crew for? Or is this one of those reality check moments?
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Published 2021-02-03

Help Wanted!

73 min
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An unusual pairing of Paramedics in an unusual setting in an unfamiliar area creates for an ungood circumstance. Spencer and Chris go the distance in dissecting a call that takes place in the middle of a foot race!
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An unusual pairing of Paramedics in an unusual setting in an unfamiliar area creates for an ungood circumstance. Spencer and Chris go the distance in dissecting a call that takes place in the middle of a foot race!
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Published 2021-01-27

This Shouldn't Be Happening...

69 min
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The guys review a substantially disjointed call in which a patient is coded... or are they? How can a densely, perhaps even over-resourced system miss THIS?
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The guys review a substantially disjointed call in which a patient is coded... or are they? How can a densely, perhaps even over-resourced system miss THIS?
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Published 2021-01-20

Forgetting How To Walk

45 min
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Leading your first code with minimal resources can be likened to being birthed as a baby giraffe learning what legs are for. Spencer and Chris review a new Paramedic doing exactly that as they come back with another episode aimed at helping new providers climb those first hurdles!
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Leading your first code with minimal resources can be likened to being birthed as a baby giraffe learning what legs are for. Spencer and Chris review a new Paramedic doing exactly that as they come back with another episode aimed at helping new providers climb those first hurdles!
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Published 2021-01-13

Four Years Versus Twelve Leads

65 min
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Spencer nerds out over an interesting 12-lead and flexes his EKG knowledge as the guys analyze a call in which a responder misses a STEMI... or did he?
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Spencer nerds out over an interesting 12-lead and flexes his EKG knowledge as the guys analyze a call in which a responder misses a STEMI... or did he?
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Published 2021-01-06

Wait... You Did What?

60 min
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Crew's respond to a care facility where a medication was given incorrectly... and that's not even the worst thing that happens... Listen to this weeks episode of EMS 20/20 to find out how a bad situation can be made even worse!
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Crew's respond to a care facility where a medication was given incorrectly... and that's not even the worst thing that happens... Listen to this weeks episode of EMS 20/20 to find out how a bad situation can be made even worse!
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Published 2020-12-30

Going the Distance

89 min
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What happens when a patient starves themselves (almost) to death? What's the difference between a clinical overreaction and a Dr. House moment? In an EMS 20/20 first ever double header, the guys explore two calls with some unique challenges and an overarching theme.
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What happens when a patient starves themselves (almost) to death? What's the difference between a clinical overreaction and a Dr. House moment? In an EMS 20/20 first ever double header, the guys explore two calls with some unique challenges and an overarching theme.
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Published 2020-12-23

Soft Touch for a Hard Hit

74 min
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Alcohol, boyfriends, alcohol, a dog, and more alcohol. Spencer and Chris analyze a call where an experienced crew deal with an untrusting patient, a loud (but hilarious) boyfriend, and a dog named Falcor that really couldn't care less.
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Alcohol, boyfriends, alcohol, a dog, and more alcohol. Spencer and Chris analyze a call where an experienced crew deal with an untrusting patient, a loud (but hilarious) boyfriend, and a dog named Falcor that really couldn't care less.
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Published 2020-12-16

Sounds Like A Duck...

69 min
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If it sounds like a duck, it must be one, right? Have a listen as Paramedics Baller, Shot Caller, and Impala unsuccessfully shock a patient. You too can be shocked: For the first time ever in the history of the universe... CHRIS IS WRONG.
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If it sounds like a duck, it must be one, right? Have a listen as Paramedics Baller, Shot Caller, and Impala unsuccessfully shock a patient. You too can be shocked: For the first time ever in the history of the universe... CHRIS IS WRONG.
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Published 2020-12-02

A Lazy Game of Hot Potato

58 min
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Spencer and Chris unravel a complicated scene that didn't need to happen. The only thing harder to find than this patients pulse is the history of his present illness! Do they ever find it? Have a listen and find out!
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Spencer and Chris unravel a complicated scene that didn't need to happen. The only thing harder to find than this patients pulse is the history of his present illness! Do they ever find it? Have a listen and find out!
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Published 2020-11-25

I Wanna Roc!

59 min
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Chris and Spencer review one helluva a breathing call! That's right, two back to back breathing episodes, but this one has a special twist: what happens when the thing that always works... doesn't? And can adding a doctor to a call always make things better? Have a listen and find out!
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Chris and Spencer review one helluva a breathing call! That's right, two back to back breathing episodes, but this one has a special twist: what happens when the thing that always works... doesn't? And can adding a doctor to a call always make things better? Have a listen and find out!
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Published 2020-11-18

Passing the Baton

52 min
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Q-tip and Cotton Ball respond to an urgent care clinic where staff has a reasonable plan with unreasonable expectations for a young asthma patient. The call goes from bad to better to way worse as Chris and Spencer comb through the details in this week's episode!
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Q-tip and Cotton Ball respond to an urgent care clinic where staff has a reasonable plan with unreasonable expectations for a young asthma patient. The call goes from bad to better to way worse as Chris and Spencer comb through the details in this week's episode!
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Published 2020-11-11

Pump the Brakes

57 min
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A new Paramedic careens down an unsafe road but is thankfully stopped before something disastrous happens by a more experienced Paramedic... only to miss other warning signs further down the road. Have a listen as Chris and Spencer map out a safe route through a tricky situation!
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A new Paramedic careens down an unsafe road but is thankfully stopped before something disastrous happens by a more experienced Paramedic... only to miss other warning signs further down the road. Have a listen as Chris and Spencer map out a safe route through a tricky situation!
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Published 2020-11-04

It's Not You, It's Me

56 min
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A Paramedic does a fantastic thorough assessment, thinks outside the box, and delivers appropriate care, but the patient still wants some space from being alive. Is there something the crew could have done better after all? Have a listen and find out!
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A Paramedic does a fantastic thorough assessment, thinks outside the box, and delivers appropriate care, but the patient still wants some space from being alive. Is there something the crew could have done better after all? Have a listen and find out!
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Published 2020-10-28

Painful Realization

65 min
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CONTROVERSY WARNING! So just how good are pre-hospital providers at evaluating and treating pain? Can we call a faker out with any accuracy? Are we giving too much pain medication? Too little? Dr. Seitz from https://www.seitzandsirens.com joins Chris and Spencer in one of the most controversial episodes yet!
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CONTROVERSY WARNING! So just how good are pre-hospital providers at evaluating and treating pain? Can we call a faker out with any accuracy? Are we giving too much pain medication? Too little? Dr. Seitz from https://www.seitzandsirens.com joins Chris and Spencer in one of the most controversial episodes yet!
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Published 2020-10-21

Uncomfortably Pregnant

52 min
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Spence and Chris talk about a call where two Paramedics cross their fingers, close their eyes, and just hope a call goes away. But guess what? In EMS, you don't get to do that. Listen and find out why!
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Spence and Chris talk about a call where two Paramedics cross their fingers, close their eyes, and just hope a call goes away. But guess what? In EMS, you don't get to do that. Listen and find out why!
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Published 2020-10-14

Clownfish Learns His ABC's...

54 min
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A couple of fish are taken to school as Clownfish and Anglerfish learn the finer points of time management. Does it cost the patient dearly? Does it even matter? Would Chris have done any better? Find out on this weeks episode of EMS 20/20!
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A couple of fish are taken to school as Clownfish and Anglerfish learn the finer points of time management. Does it cost the patient dearly? Does it even matter? Would Chris have done any better? Find out on this weeks episode of EMS 20/20!
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Published 2020-10-07

I See Dead People

78 min
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Abdominal pain turns code turns DOUBLE CODE. A seasoned Paramedic finds herself alone at the top of the EMS food chain trying to get pulses back in not one but two people who really, really need pulses. How does she manage the chaos? Listen and find out! ALSO: New intro that Chris changed at the last minute... sorry Spence!
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Abdominal pain turns code turns DOUBLE CODE. A seasoned Paramedic finds herself alone at the top of the EMS food chain trying to get pulses back in not one but two people who really, really need pulses. How does she manage the chaos? Listen and find out! ALSO: New intro that Chris changed at the last minute... sorry Spence!
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Published 2020-09-30

Dissecting an FTO's Failure

73 min
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Spencer brings a case with a patient that is absolutely totally fine...until he absolutely totally isn't. A trainee and his trainer let their hopes for the best obscure the worst in a case that even had Chris shrugging his shoulders.
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Spencer brings a case with a patient that is absolutely totally fine...until he absolutely totally isn't. A trainee and his trainer let their hopes for the best obscure the worst in a case that even had Chris shrugging his shoulders.
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Published 2020-09-23

Sometimes Everyone Drowns

62 min
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Chris and Spence talk about a drowning Paramedic... er, patient! Maybe both? What happens when the sole Paramedic on scene can't pull the trigger? Listen to find out as the guys talk about rapid and delayed sequence intubation as well the pushing the limits of the scope of practice!
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Chris and Spence talk about a drowning Paramedic... er, patient! Maybe both? What happens when the sole Paramedic on scene can't pull the trigger? Listen to find out as the guys talk about rapid and delayed sequence intubation as well the pushing the limits of the scope of practice!
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Published 2020-09-16

The Non-Episode Episode

0 min
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This week Chris and Spencer do... nothing! Spencer is out helping areas affected by the fires here in Oregon as on site medical staff. But no worries! Next week we will be back on track with a new episode!
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This week Chris and Spencer do... nothing! Spencer is out helping areas affected by the fires here in Oregon as on site medical staff. But no worries! Next week we will be back on track with a new episode!
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Published 2020-09-09

Critiquing the Crossroads

57 min
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The guys are joined by Dr. Chris Seitz, and ER physician who helps bring some much needed perspective to last weeks complex episode. Was CPAP the right thing to do? Were pressers needed? What about intubation? It all gets answered on this week's deep dive! Need to pass your NREMT exam? Check out Seitz and Sirens and get it done! Use promo code EMS2020 for a discount! https://www.seitzandsirens.com/emt-test-prep
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The guys are joined by Dr. Chris Seitz, and ER physician who helps bring some much needed perspective to last weeks complex episode. Was CPAP the right thing to do? Were pressers needed? What about intubation? It all gets answered on this week's deep dive! Need to pass your NREMT exam? Check out Seitz and Sirens and get it done! Use promo code EMS2020 for a discount! https://www.seitzandsirens.com/emt-test-prep
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Published 2020-09-02

Critical Crossroads

70 min
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The guys follow a harrowing call where two Paramedics, Dingo and Corgi, come to a crossroad on a very ill patient. The crew will need to make a decision on how to treat this critically sick patient. Are they able to make the right choice? Are they able to make a choice at all? In the follow up episode next week, we will be joined by Dr. Chris Seitz from Seitz and Sirens! https://www.seitzandsirens.com/emt-test-prep
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The guys follow a harrowing call where two Paramedics, Dingo and Corgi, come to a crossroad on a very ill patient. The crew will need to make a decision on how to treat this critically sick patient. Are they able to make the right choice? Are they able to make a choice at all? In the follow up episode next week, we will be joined by Dr. Chris Seitz from Seitz and Sirens! https://www.seitzandsirens.com/emt-test-prep
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Published 2020-08-26

Soft Shell Redemption

40 min
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Soft Shell returns from last week as Spencer and Chris discuss the ins and outs of subarachnoid bleeds. What can cause them, what they can do to the patient, and what we can do in the field, the guys cover it all as they review Soft Shell's redemption.
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Soft Shell returns from last week as Spencer and Chris discuss the ins and outs of subarachnoid bleeds. What can cause them, what they can do to the patient, and what we can do in the field, the guys cover it all as they review Soft Shell's redemption.
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Published 2020-08-19

Soft Sell from Soft Shell

48 min
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As a freshly minted lead Paramedic, Soft Shelled Turtle comes across a patient with a telling set of symptoms that go from bad to worse. To make matter more interesting, Softy decides that the patients condition is better delivered as a surprise to receiving ER, leading to pure pandemonium.
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As a freshly minted lead Paramedic, Soft Shelled Turtle comes across a patient with a telling set of symptoms that go from bad to worse. To make matter more interesting, Softy decides that the patients condition is better delivered as a surprise to receiving ER, leading to pure pandemonium.
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Published 2020-08-12

Head and the Heart

61 min
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This week's episode is a deep dive into what Lone Wolf nailed in They Have A History of Heart. Spencer and Chris talk about talking to patients, the one skill you need on quite literally every call, but the one skill that few have truly mastered... including us!
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This week's episode is a deep dive into what Lone Wolf nailed in They Have A History of Heart. Spencer and Chris talk about talking to patients, the one skill you need on quite literally every call, but the one skill that few have truly mastered... including us!
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Published 2020-08-05

They Have A History Of Heart

53 min
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Lone Wolf, an experienced Paramedic, puts on a master class of communicating with a jackass of a patient... but makes one single misstep that almost costs the patient their life! Chris and Spence review a call that could be all too real to anyone in the field as a difficult patient makes history taking a challenge.
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Lone Wolf, an experienced Paramedic, puts on a master class of communicating with a jackass of a patient... but makes one single misstep that almost costs the patient their life! Chris and Spence review a call that could be all too real to anyone in the field as a difficult patient makes history taking a challenge.
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Published 2020-07-29

Sed8tion Lessons from the Sk8ter Boy

54 min
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Spencer and Chris talk about Sedatives and Paralytics commonly used in EMS. Why should you pick one over the other? What are the pros and cons of each? Did you know that paralysis does not equal sedation? Because it really doesn't.
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Spencer and Chris talk about Sedatives and Paralytics commonly used in EMS. Why should you pick one over the other? What are the pros and cons of each? Did you know that paralysis does not equal sedation? Because it really doesn't.
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Published 2020-07-22

The Sk8ter Boy

50 min
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Nicknames return! A crew secures an airway in a calm, decisive manner and begins transport on their trauma patient. Easy going from here on in, right? ...right?
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Nicknames return! A crew secures an airway in a calm, decisive manner and begins transport on their trauma patient. Easy going from here on in, right? ...right?
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Published 2020-07-08

Airway Anyone? ...Anyone?

53 min
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Chris and Spencer identify the key skill to being a good PIC while examining a leaderless scene. A team overstays their welcome, an airway lingers for too long, and a crew member disappears.
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Chris and Spencer identify the key skill to being a good PIC while examining a leaderless scene. A team overstays their welcome, an airway lingers for too long, and a crew member disappears.
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Published 2020-06-24

Trying to Coach Your Patient To Death

36 min
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Spencer and Chris dig into a call where assumptions run wild and a Paramedic makes an attempt to coach someone out of a life threatening disease.
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Spencer and Chris dig into a call where assumptions run wild and a Paramedic makes an attempt to coach someone out of a life threatening disease.
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