For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

“Does Jesus really love me?” Journalist Jeff Chu has asked himself this question countless times since he was a kid. Jeff grew up immersed in a family of theologians, where knowing and sticking to the Bible’s rules were prized currency. As Jeff approached high school, he realized he was gay. Over time, while he prayed for God to change who he was, Jeff threw himself into his work to escape his inner turmoil and realized he was a gifted storyteller who loved talking with people from all walks of life. A few years ago, Jeff found himself on the road, searching for the answer to his long-held question across America as he interviewed everyone from nice church ladies to members of the Westboro Baptist Church. And as he talked to more and more people about their spiritual beliefs, he concluded that yes: even though Jeff doesn’t feel like it some days, Jesus really does love us all. And if we actually believed He did, we would speak differently, tweet differently, love differently—in a nutshell, believing we’re loved would transform our lives.

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When Kaitlin Curtice speaks, people listen. Raised a Southern Baptist, as she grew older Kaitlin began to explore her family’s rich history in the Potawatomi Citizen Band. Kaitlin tells us what life is like as an indigenous woman in the United States today, how she’s teaching her kids about their heritage and how we can rally around teachers of color during their hardest moments. Kaitlin reminds us we have a responsibility to incorporate a wide range of voices into our world and remember the power of empathizing with an experience different from our own. One of the most poignant lessons she gives us: God is inviting us into the sacred, and it’s not in a far-off sunbeam or reserved for the church pew—the sacred is all around us, from the daffodils on the street corner to the popsicle-stained smile of our kid, even as we are consoled in our pain and grief. God’s glory is in everyone and everything. We only need eyes to see it.

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When Mike McHargue, AKA Science Mike of The Liturgists Podcast, stopped by to visit with Jen, we knew we were in for some mind-bending stuff. After all, you don’t go from a Southern Baptist deacon to an atheist back to a follower of Jesus without gaining some wisdom along the way. But in our next installment of For the Love of Faith Groundbreakers, Science Mike helps us understand the kind of God we believe in, whether he is angry or loving, has a profound effect not only on the way we view the world, but the actual way our brain functions. *cue mind-blowing explosion* Along with his brilliant insights, Mike shares his faith journey and how he navigated the most difficult parts of his changing views—including why he stayed at church, despite his nonbelief—and how a trip to NASA and a night on the Pacific Ocean helped him re-meet God in a whole new way. Like Mike, so many of us have asked tough questions, and maybe have meandered through spaces of doubt and uncertainty. Mike reminds us we can be kind, conscientious people no matter where we find ourselves on our faith journeys, and we can have wandering seasons and still be okay.

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We’re thrilled to enter a new series: For the Love of Faith Groundbreakers. In the vein of last year’s “exploring our faith” series, we’re talking with women and men who are taking a fresh, honest look at their faith experiences and blazing new trails when they find the status quo isn’t feeling quite right. Leading us off in this series is Osheta Moore, a writer, speaker, podcaster, and a faith groundbreaker in her own right. Osheta is also a powerful leader on racial reconciliation and equality, and through it all, she teaches that God wants each of us to be whole, vibrant, and flourishing. In her book and podcast called Shalom Sistas, Osheta breaks down 12 ways we can turn “shalom” into an action. She shows us how to become peacemakers in our everyday lives—not just with each other, but with ourselves and with God. Osheta shows us that peace is more than just a feeling. It’s the belief that God created us perfectly, just as we are, and the bodies that we live and practice shalom in, from the color of our skin to the shape of our hips, are wholly good.

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You know that warm, happy glow you get after chatting with your friend all night, favorite beverage in hand and deep conversation shared between you? This conversation is one of those happy moments. Jen had the chance to catch up with Lady Antebellum’s Hillary Scott backstage at the San Antonio Stock Show and Rodeo (the most Texas thing ever), and we get to peek behind the curtain and hear what it was like for Hillary to grow up in Nashville with parents who were country music staples (in Reba’s band, no less!) and how chatting up a guy she recognized from Myspace (yes, it’s still out there) led to a spot in one of the hottest country groups of the century. We also love Hillary’s perspective on the beauty of strong friendships, and how they’ve been a foundation for her during a whirlwind season as a new mom. Hillary saw that trying to “do it all” wasn’t helping her or anyone, and the moment she decided give herself a break and accept grace from herself and from God, she was able to cherish herself and her family the way she always wanted.

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Say the words “Amy Grant,” and you launch a generation of music lovers into nostalgia. We’ve grown up alongside Amy, haven’t we? Who didn’t sing “Love Will Find a Way” or “Baby, Baby” into their hairbrush? Who didn’t feel a rush of pride when we saw our favorite Christian songstress—someone even our parents approved of—show up on VH1 and Top 40 radio stations? Amy navigated the whirlwind of success that enveloped her and the inevitable criticism it brought from those who thought she had left her roots behind to become the strong, gracious and gifted artist she is today. Those darker moments, which she describes as “a 10-year tunnel,” started with her very public divorce that found her emerging on the other side with a new sense of connection to God and to those who walked alongside her. With her career and her music still going strong, Amy’s devotion to family and community is firmly at the center, and she looks back at the tough times as bringing about a “very unique toolkit” that will be essential to help guide her children on their next great adventures.

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We have country music royalty in our midst today, we’re fangirling and we don’t even care—because Martina McBride is our queen! Since she came on the scene in the early 90s, Martina has been a vocal powerhouse ranked among the all-time greatest female performers in country music with hits like “This One’s for the Girls,” “In My Daughter’s Eyes,” “Concrete Angel,” and so many more. Today Martina tells us how she went from singing in her dad’s band in Kansas and selling T-shirts at Garth Brooks concerts to nailing a recording contract and rising to the top of the charts. She shares the stories behind those amazing and empowering songs she chose to record, and reflects on the current music scene and why it’s important for women to be represented more equally. We find out what she is doing musically these days, and how she gives back with her charitable organization Team Music Is Love. We also get to hear about Martina’s new second career: Food Network chef at Martina’s Table and cookbook author of Martina’s Kitchen Mix!

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When Jennifer Knapp broke into Christian music in the 90s, we’d never heard anyone quite like her before. A soulful voice with lyrics to match, Jennifer took the CCM scene by storm—until she stepped out of the spotlight just a few years into her career, after an unrelenting scheduled left her body exhausted and her creative well drained. After a seven-year hiatus, Jennifer came back in full force with a powerful, courageous confession: she is gay and had been in a relationship with a woman since 2002. With unapologetic honesty, Jennifer has kept exploring her faith publicly in a memoir called Facing the Music, and even started an organization called Inside Out Faith, which advocates for the affirmation of our LGBTQ brothers and sisters in our faith communities. Today she and Jen talk about how she found faith in her college years and started weaving it into her music, and after she returned from her extended break—where she engaged in a fight for her own belovedness and belonging—she is now helping others find theirs.

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You asked, we listened: this is the kick-off episode of our For the Love of Music series! We’ll hear from artists of all stripes and genres, and find out what inspires them to create songs that touch our hearts like nothing else can. No doubt today’s guest has given you goosebumps a time or two. Whether it was her stunning rendition of “The Star Spangled Banner” that launched her to fame in the mid-80s, or when she belted out gospel classics like “We Shall Behold Him,” Sandi Patty is a vocal force of nature—but, ironically, she never felt she had a true voice in her own life. Today Sandi tells us some deeply personal, tragic and triumphant stories she wrote in her book “The Voice: Listening for God’s Voice and Finding Your Own.” Sandi shows us despite the darkness we face and despite others who may try to silence us for their own gain, our voices are valuable and worthy to be shared—and when we do, we’ll likely find a community of others waiting for a relatable voice to help them through their own darkness.

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One of the bravest, most impactful good changes we can make is to care for our emotional wellness. Each day we carry so many thoughts, memories and dreams that shape the stories we tell about ourselves. When we’re ready to live a new story, or maybe learn a little more about how to better care for ourselves, therapy can be a long-lasting tool to help us take off our mask, heal our shame, and forge a path toward vulnerability and authentic, joyful living. Miles Adcox is the CEO of Onsite, an emotional wellness lifestyle brand that delivers life-changing personal growth retreats to help people discover a better future. Miles is known far and wide for his expertise and has been part of Dr. Brené Brown’s Rising Strong Day and TEDx. Today Miles tells us about his own emotional wellness journey and why therapy isn’t for broken people. He gives us a slew of resources about how to find the best therapist for us, and what we can expect to learn about ourselves as we take time to dig deeper. And probably the most encouraging of all, Miles reminds us we don’t just “need” therapy—we deserve it.

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When you have no idea what to do next, it feels like you’re drowning in a lake of neverending to-do lists, homework, laundry, and dreams on hold. In a word, it’s *overwhelming.* How do we begin to take charge and find a way out of the chaos? In the words of our next guest: just do the next right thing (FYI: “NEXT” is the key word here!). Writer and podcaster Emily P. Freeman gives us tools to find out what The Next Right Thing is for each us, which is also the title of her insightful podcast and her upcoming book that hits shelves April 2. Emily shows us why naming our fears gives us power over them, how to make decisions in a better way, and how practicing “soul minimalism” will help us all breathe more easily in two seconds flat. And perhaps best of all, Emily helps us recognize that like our favorite jeans, the decisions that were once right for us may not fit anymore—and that’s 100% okay.

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With the new year comes new pressure to CHANGE. OUR. LIVES. This is the year we’re finally going to lose the weight, finish the project, clean out ALL the closets. Time after time, so many of us find life gets in the way. And when we can’t attain the lofty goals we set for ourselves, we feel like failures. Jon Acuff joins the show to give us permission to finish, even if we only get part of the way there. Jon is the New York Times bestselling author of 6 books, including Finish: Give Yourself the Gift of Done (which just conveniently came out in paperback!). Today he reveals how we can be honest about our goals and kinder to ourselves, even when our efforts come up short of our expectations—or where we perceive others are. Jon and Jen talk about why the pursuit of perfection can be the biggest hurdle to “getting it done,” and how cutting goals in half raises our chance for success through the roof. Jon reveals we might need more than a year to get some things done (What? Resolution sacrilege!) and shows we’re really NOT wired to do it all, despite what others’ social media pages may depict. And with that realization alone, life becomes much more enjoyable.

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What would our lives be like if we spent less time thinking and talking about the way we look? What If we stopped comparing our bodies and bemoaning our “flaws”? Researchers report 85–95% of women are extremely dissatisfied with their bodies. How can we change this for ourselves? How can we pass down positive messages about female bodies to the next generation of women? Hillary McBride is a therapist and researcher who writes about these questions in her book Mothers, Daughters, and Body Image: Learning to Love Ourselves as We Are. According to Hillary, we inherit harmful stories about our bodies, and may even pass them onto our daughters without even knowing it. Hillary points out other ways we come by this language: through systemic misinformation and misogyny that envelop us daily, pushing us toward an unattainable standard of beauty. This conversation has everything to do with dispelling our shame and celebrating our womanhood. It reminds us of the power of legacy and the freedom we gain by owning our stories and our worth. And at the end of those stories, we each get to define what’s beautiful, accepted, and good.

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Lawyer-turned-writer Gretchen Rubin fancied herself a happy person. She had a job she liked, a husband and two daughters she loved, a life she enjoyed. But one day she found herself wondering, “Could I be happier?” So she set out to change her life—not in a blow-it-all-up-and-move-across-the-world kind of way, but with small steps over one year. Gretchen documented her experiment to live happier in the blockbuster New York Times bestseller The Happiness Project, and has inspired millions to improve their lives and find contentment. As part of our For the Love of Good Change series, Jen and Gretchen talk about why it’s okay to pursue happiness in a world filled with hard things, and the little ways we can reach for a richer, more satisfying life. Gretchen shows how easy it is to work “happiness habits” into our lives (Jen adopted one immediately after this interview!) and how these small steps can yield big, long-term results. We also get a sneak peek at Gretchen’s new book coming out this spring: Outer Order, Inner Calm.

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Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays from the For the Love team! This week, we’re previewing our brand-new series for the new year, For the Love of Good Change, and bringing back one of our most downloaded episodes (not to mention one of our favorite guests): Emily Ley, author and creator of The Simplified Planner! A busy mom and head of a flourishing company, Emily found that striving for “all the things” left her with no time or energy to enjoy the good stuff. A champion for helping others organize, declutter, and simplify, Emily’s own life was lacking in simple joys because she was striving for an impossible standard of perfection. She shares how she learned to give herself grace, say the dreaded “no“ word, and take some steps back in order to move ahead. She also gives us some GREAT bringing-order-to-chaos hacks, like answering the question Jen posed herself: "Why do I have 17 spatulas??” Emily's newest book is A Simplified Life: Tactical Tools for Intentional Living, and her next one comes out this spring—A Standard of Grace: Guided Journal.

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Susan Ramirez and Jon Huckins are giving their all in some of *the* hardest work: lending voices and love to two communities who are suffering deeply. In our last episode of For the Love of Giving, we’re going to talk with Susan and Jon about the problems their communities face, and how we can give our time and privilege to help solve these complex problems. First up, Susan Ramirez is the CEO of National Angels, an org that walks alongside children and their caretakers in the foster care system. Today, we learn how one National Angels program is changing lives by providing love and belonging to kids who need it most. In the second half of the show, we talk with Jon Huckins. Jon is the co-founding director of the Global Immersion Project, a peacemaking training organization that equips people of faith to engage our divided world in restorative ways. Jen and Jon discuss how we can be good brothers and sisters to our neighbors who are suffering on the border, and how those with privilege can use it to fight on behalf of their marginalized neighbors.

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People give in all kinds of ways. Some give talent. Others give quality time. Some use their influence to shine a light on struggles we need to know about. Our next guest, Ty Pennington, has given in each of these avenues—and shared a few laughs with us along the way! We’ve loved Ty since he lit up our TV screens in the early-2000s (and newly revived!) design series Trading Spaces as the energetic, fun-loving carpenter. Later, Ty was the host of Extreme Makeover: Home Edition, where he and his team of designers and volunteers had the joy of giving a home makeover to deserving families in just seven days (Bonus: Ty gives us the skinny on that now-famous “Move that bus!” line). In his own “Move that bus!” moment, Ty gives his own personal “reveal” in his upcoming book, Life to the Extreme. We learn about his struggle with ADHD, his whirlwind days as a model, and the hilarious way he landed his role on Trading Spaces. Ty shows that giving can come in many forms and from unlikely ways—even from the kid who was always sent to the principal’s office.

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“What would the opposite of my life look like?” Today’s guest, Charity: Water founder Scott Harrison, was a Jesus kid turned high-end club promoter, with all the luxury and excess that comes with it. Unfulfilled by his pursuit of “more” and desperate for a change, Scott sold everything he owned and joined a non-profit as a photojournalist. What he saw on his journeys changed his life, as he realized a basic need we take for granted—clean water—wasn’t available in many parts of the world. That discovery led him to found Charity: Water, which has helped 8.5 million people around the world gain access to clean water. We’ll hear about Scott’s new memoir Thirst, and why people are canceling their HBO subscriptions to give to Charity: Water’s super-cool new initiative, Spring. Scott’s story reminds us we’re never too far gone to make a change—our lives can be redeemed, no matter what.

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When Fred Rogers was a boy (stay with us here) and he would see scary things on the news, his mother would tell him, “Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.” Fret not, dear ones: Mr. Rogers’ mother is still right. For this episode in our For the Love of Giving series, we’re thrilled to bring you two people who are helping the helpers and fueling their dreams to change the world. Our first guest, Mike Rusch, is the CEO of Pure Charity, a nonprofit that provides software and strategy for more than a thousand organizations worldwide, including Bob Goff’s Love Does, Habitat for Humanity, Help One Now, and our own Legacy Collective. Mike tells us how Pure Charity puts the structure behind nonprofits’ missions to make a difference, why giving circles are impactful, and key advice for those who are looking to start their own nonprofit. We’re also thrilled to have Legacy Collective partner Faitth Brooks on the show! Jen and Faith talk about the unique way Legacy partners with people around the world, some of the life-giving projects Legacy has helped fund, and how you can get involved.

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Back by popular demand, it’s one of our very favorite episodes: the Hatmakers’ Holiday Gift Guide! Our resident gift-giving champ (and Jen’s husband) Brandon is back to highlight twelve companies creating top-shelf products and making a difference in our world. Jen and Brandon dish about gifts for everyone on your list: ladies, gents, kids, foodies, coffee addicts, coworkers, lovers of all things cozy, nature folks, and so much more. And if you’re in the car or at the gym, don’t worry! For each item Jen and Brandon mention, you can find photos and product links, PLUS special offers exclusively for you, our faithful listeners! To get all the deets, look for this episode’s transcript at JenHatmaker.com/podcast. Over the next few weeks, keep listening to our “For the Love of Giving” series, where you’ll hear from amazing guests who have centered their lives on helping others. Most importantly, you’ll learn how you can help people close to you, your community, and around the world.

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You know those friends who know exactly what to watch and never steer you wrong? The friend who had an actual Smoke Monster terrorize guests during LOST watch parties? That other friend who does 7,000-word recaps of The Bachelor? These are (literally) those kinds of friends: Knox McCoy and Jamie Golden! Knox and Jamie are the hosts of The Popcast, a delightful show that, in Knox and Jamie’s words, “educates us on the things that entertain but do not matter.” Today, these pop culture partners-in-crime wrap up For the Love of TV and give us a gazillion shows we need to binge-watch: comedies, dramas, nuggets from TV shows past, their all-time favorites. Plus, they give us some tips on what not to watch with your family at the holidays (your grandma is thanking us already). This conversation will have you rolling, as will Knox’s debut book, The Wondering Years: How Pop Culture Helped Me Answer Life’s Biggest Questions. We even break out a little TV geek and talk about why there’s (finally!) so much diversity onscreen and what the future of entertainment holds.

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Between her roles in The Office and Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, you knew Ellie Kemper had to be delightful in real life—and we’re thrilled to confirm you’re absolutely right! Today Ellie joins our For the Love of TV series, as we continue to dive into the personalities and the “behind the screens” perspectives of some of our favorite TV people! Come along with Jen as we hear about Ellie’s roots in St. Louis and getting high school improv classes from Jon Hamm (yep, THE Don Draper . . . and Ellie’s future TV “husband”), navigating life as an intern on Conan and a writer for McSweeney’s and The Onion, and how she broke into Hollywood (fun fact: Tina Fey wrote the TV pilot for Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt JUST FOR HER). Plus, we hear how Ellie has dusted off her writing chops to produce her hilarious debut book, My Squirrel Days.

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This week we’re rolling out the red carpet for a woman with a ton of talent and a heart of gold: Jen’s delightful friend, actor Kimberly Williams-Paisley! You’ve seen Kim in TV and movies since the ‘90s when she got her breakthrough role in Father of the Bride as Steve Martin and Diane Keaton’s onscreen daughter Annie Banks. More recently you’ve seen Kim playing bad-girl Peggy Kenter in Nashville and her stints in fun Hallmark movies like Darrow & Darrow. Jen and Kim dish about the behind-the-scenes fun that goes on with a TV cast and crew: the commercials Kim did for “all the uncomfortable products” when she was just getting started, and the special skills involved with “fake dying” on TV. She tells us how she’s navigated a career that allows her to have a full life with her family: husband Brad Paisley and sons Huck and Jasper. Kim’s commitment to family is particularly poignant as she shares how her family walked alongside her mom as she battled Alzheimer’s, which inspired Kim’s heartbreaking yet hopeful book, Where the Light Gets In. And just when you think Kim’s heart couldn’t get any bigger, she gives us a sneak peek at the amazing organization she and Brad are launching in Nashville. She’s a bright light indeed, so we’re just gonna say “you’re welcome” for this refreshing dose of goodness in your week.

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It’s not every day that you find a hilarious TV show that features moral philosophers and tries to answer “What does it mean to be a good person?” But then again, not every show is NBC’s The Good Place. And today on For the Love, we’re over-the-top thrilled to have Tahani herself, actor Jameela Jamil! Just like the show she works on, Jameela is kind and smart, brilliant and inquisitive. You’ll love Jameela’s humor and wisdom as she traces her journey from growing up in London to working in TV and radio in the UK, then moving to LA and accidentally landing a job on one of the kindest and most forward-thinking sets in Hollywood. One of our favorite things about Jameela is the way she advocates for body positivity, born from years of struggle in her teens and a traumatic event that changed the way she looked at herself forever. Along with her no-airbrush policy, Jameela has started @i_weigh, a body-positive movement on social media that encourages people to define themselves by their character instead of a number on a scale.

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Put on your yoga pants and grab some popcorn, because today, ladies and gents, we start a brand-new series: For the Love of TV! And there’s no one better to hold court on our first episode than the Queen of Daytime TV herself, Kathie Lee Gifford! Swapping stories with Kathie Lee is a delight, and we hear about it all: Kathie Lee’s roots in the Christian music industry, her road to ratings darling Live! with Regis & Kathie Lee, her marriage with Frank Gifford, and some of Kathie Lee’s favorite moments from her storied 40+ year career (including one of the most cringe-worthy blunders on live TV). And Kathie Lee is not a one-trick pony: she dazzles with her theologian-level knowledge of scripture and lets us in on the inspiration behind her adorable new children’s book The Gift That I Can Give.

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It’s been bananas in the political sphere the past few years, but you knew that. You may not think you have a voice in any of the chaos, but frankly you do—because We The People get to decide who represents us and our values. Your thoughts, your ideas—they have power. And one of the most effective ways to exercise your power is to vote. 2018 midterm elections are approaching around the country on every level: local, state, and national. Our show doesn’t focus on politics, but if you’re living and breathing, it can’t be avoided. And we are a show that isn't afraid to open ourselves up to important conversations. There’s an up-and-coming senate candidate in Jen’s home state of Texas, and he’s been making some waves. Representative Beto O’Rourke is on the campaign trail and called Jen from his car to talk about what’s important to him as pursues this race, and the values he shares with many of our listeners—values like government and healthcare that represent everyone, and helping families stay together and thrive. We follow up this conversation with the ladies from Pantsuit Politics, Sarah and Beth, who have a “relationships before policy” attitude, and they break down Jen’s conversation with Beto from both sides of the aisle.

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What was the hardest book for Jen to write? How’s the new book coming along? How on earth do we dip a toe into the publishing waters? And when is she going to write us a cookbook?! No doubt each of us in the For the Love community has had a question or two for our host. And while Jen normally asks the questions, today we turn the tables and give FTL listeners the mic! We asked you to send your book and writing questions, and you delivered some practical and thought-provoking conversation starters. Today in our second Q&A episode, Jen answers all kinds of questions, everything from the craft of writing and how she stays inspired to creating a platform and even how to deal with regular life (her advice on working well with a spouse is gold). And stick around till the very end, when Jen answers all the questions we’ve been asking to each guest in the book series, including what’s saving her life right now.

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When we’re kids, we each think about the lives we want when we’re older. What if you worked hard for years to make that dream—a loving husband, doting children, a farmhouse with a literal white-picket fence—a reality? And then, all of a sudden, you’re picking the shards of your realized childhood dream off the ground? That’s what happened to Shannan Martin—and she couldn’t be more thankful. Shannan is a writer and speaker from Goshen, Indiana, who is one of Jen’s literal favorite people. Today we’ll hear how Shannan found her voice in the country and her story in the city, and about her new book The Ministry of Ordinary Places. We’ll learn how she and her jail-chaplain husband Cory found their four children, including one who was a nineteen-year-old father of twins when he came to them, and how Shannan and Cory have learned to parent each of their adopted children. We’ll talk about how to become good neighbors with people who come from different walks of life, whose path to the present doesn’t resemble ours at all, and why sometimes staying in a place you don’t feel completely comfortable in can be one of the bravest things you can do.

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This is a special week in For the Love world, because it’s our very first live podcast! A few weeks ago, Jen and author Kelly Corrigan hosted 150 women in Jen’s backyard in Buda, Texas, and today we get to share this conversation with you, our beloved For the Love listeners. Kelly is the New York Times bestselling author of four books, including The Middle Place and her latest Tell Me More: Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I’m Learning to Say. In this live episode, Jen and Kelly talk about being raised by dads who loved them ridiculously, their shared crush on Tom Brokaw, Kelly’s brief flirtation as a shoplifter in the ‘80s, the glories and doldrums of writing, and so much more. This episode is extra long, so pencil in a few more chores or squats at the gym, and settle in for lots of laughter and fun as we sit on the porch with Jen and Kelly.

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We’re forging ahead in our For the Love of Books series, and today we host one of the most distinctive and decorated novelists of our time, a woman who challenges us to chew on why we believe what we believe: New York Times bestselling author Jodi Picoult. For more than twenty years, Jodi has brought us novels filled with moral questions, and has presented fully-fledged characters we find ourselves having empathy for, even if we don’t agree with their choices. Jodi models this mindset in her own life as a self-described “accidental activist.” Her latest novel, A Spark of Light, tells a powerful story around an abortion clinic. Jodi talks about the research that went into the novel, and she and Jen lead us into a complicated discussion around the topic that will have us all asking the big questions, and give us insight into differing perspectives. And if you’re a fan of Jodi’s books like we are, you’ll enjoy some behind-the-scenes glimpses into her blockbuster bestseller My Sister’s Keeper, where we hear Jodi’s rationale for that amazing, heart-stopping ending that made Jen bawl in the bathtub.

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Our book series is in full swing, and we’re loving the conversations about reading and how words help us voice what really matters to us! This week’s guest is author, poet, and educator Kwame Alexander. And if you’ve never been into poetry, Kwame is here to change your view. He believes poetry is powerful enough to change the world, inspire our youth—even woo a spouse (He wrote his now-wife Stephanie a poem a day for a year. Let the collective swooning begin!). Kwame is the New York Times bestselling author of 28 books for children, teens, and young adults, but his path to becoming a published author wasn’t all flowers and love poems. Kwame shares how his Newbery-winning novel The Crossover faced 22 rejections before a publisher finally picked it up, and the tenacity it took to keep saying “yes” in a sea of “no’s.” Kwame reminds us that so much of our ability to develop an imagination and know our place in the world comes from the pages of a book. His love affair with words will ignite each of us to pursue stories that heal us, move us, and change us.

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There's never been a time when words matter more. They have the force to spark ideas, to build, to topple the status quo. Words enter the world when you use your voice. But what is your voice? For some of us, we're not even sure what our voice sounds like, let alone how to use it. That’s why we’re pleased to welcome writer Kathy Khang, our second guest in the For the Love of Books series.

Kathy has struggled with speaking out for her entire life. And despite having so many things to say, for ten years Kathy wrestled with finding the courage to write her new book Raise Your Voice. Today Jen and Kathy talk about raising our kids to have a voice, using our voice in this culture, and the tension that comes with it. Kathy reminds us what we have to say is worthy, it matters, and it's powerful.  We all benefit when we learn how we can use our voices to do great good in the world.

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Welcome to a brand spanking new series that we are just tickled to launch—For the Love of Books! It’s not like we don’t talk about books all the time anyway, but now we’re dedicating an entire series to officially having amazing conversations with writers, storytellers, lovers of books, and today’s guest, who’s a first-time author: Jessica Honegger from Noonday Collection! Ever wonder how the writing process takes place? How to go from an idea in your head to holding your book in your hands, a book that could possibly be the next bestseller? Jessica’s new book, Imperfect Courage: Live a Life of Purpose by Leaving Comfort and Going Scared, just came out, and we’re going to hear all about how it came to life.  For anyone who’s itching to tell their story or step toward the life they’ve only imagined, listen up: this is the episode for you.

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Our Parenting series wraps up with an episode that our tribe has requested overwhelmingly. As parents, we are all doing the best we can to raise great kids. But what about the challenges we didn’t expect? What about the kids who have been left behind? This week, we talked to two mamas who gave us insight into a whole other realm of parenting that requires a special resilience. Jami Amerine and her husband Justin have six kids; four biological, and two adopted. Jami tells us about her beautiful but heart-wrenching experience with foster and adoption, why she refers to her youngest kids as the #vandals, and how God is helping her family write a redemption story through loss. Diane Dokko Kim and her husband Eddie have two sons, Jeremy and Justin. In 2004, two-year-old Jeremy was diagnosed with autism and ADD/ADHD. Diane tells us about her personal and family crises after her son’s diagnosis, how she and her husband have maintained a healthy marriage throughout, and how we can be better friends and neighbors to families with special needs. And lest you think this episode is heavier than most, stay till the end to hear the most hilarious #MomFail we’ve ever heard on the podcast (which happened only an hour before recording!).

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Over 70% of moms in America work, and let’s face it: they’re pulled in a thousand directions. More than ever, the pressure is sky high to do All The Things well: birthday parties, presentations, laundry, answering emails. There hardly seems time to keep everyone fed and clothed, let alone investing in self-care and meaningful relationships. As a full-time employee in Corporate America, writer Jessica Turner knows the struggle is real. Today she sits down with Jen to discuss practical ways moms can become more efficient and less stressed, and why we shouldn’t focus on creating “work-life balance,” but “work-life satisfaction.” Jessica also shares how we can prioritize self-care, discover more flexibility at work and home, establish clear boundaries, establish easy home management solutions, and cultivate deeper relationships with our partners and friends.

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It’s the second half of the epic interview with Jana and Larry King—AKA Jen’s very own parents! In this part of the chat, Jana and Larry dish parenting gold as they talk about solutions for sibling rivalry, how to make tough parenting calls, how to weather tough storms with your adult kids, and the travesty of Jen not having a cool nickname growing up. And stay tuned ‘til the end for the best part of the interview—and grab your tissues while you’re at it. And if you missed Part 1, go back and listen to that too!

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This episode is an important chapter in For the Love Podcast history, because we have the most exceptional parenting experts on the show: Jen’s own parents! Jana and Larry King have been married for forty-seven years and had four children, and they’ve seen a few things!  Jana, a retired teacher and school administrator, and Larry, a retired minister, take listener questions, and dish out the true scoop on Jen, her siblings and real-life parenting. Toddler years, teen years, sibling rivalry, rebellion, and being the child of adult parents—we cover it all. When you only have the strength to “shoot up prayers like little arrows” for your kids (as Jana did), they understand. Trying to navigate your relationship with your adult kids (and vice versa?) Jen’s dad says it best: “You never stop being a parent, no matter how old your kids get, where they happen to be, or what they're going through.” This extra-special episode is extra long (in fact, it’s in two parts), so add some chores to your list or a couple extra miles to your run, and stay ‘til the end for the most fun and enlightening parenting conversation you’ll have this week!

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Parenting is a lifelong job, even after our children have flown the coop and are tending their own broods. Throughout the various stages, from the early “no sleep” baby years to the endless carpool years, we barely have the bandwidth to think about next week, let alone the next few decades. But what happens when our kids grow up and start making their own decisions? How do parents lay the groundwork for happy, healthy relationships with their adult children? And how do we, as daughters and sons, honor our adult parents as we forge our own way in the world? Today’s conversation helps walk us through reframing our parental relationships. Dr. Jim Burns is an author and executive director of the HomeWord Center for Youth and Family at Azusa Pacific University. Dr. Burns tells us how parents can be a sounding board for their adult kids (without being a clanging bell). He also helps us think through scenarios like what do you do if your child partners up with someone you’re not crazy about, what kinds of boundaries to maintain if your child moves home, how to stay connected to a child who shuns a relationship with their parents, and how you, an adult child yourself, can create a healthy bond with your own parents.

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From your mouth to Jen’s headphones, we’re starting a brand-new series you requested: For the Love of Parenting! This series will not only speak to those of us who are in the thick of parenting kids at every stage, but for those of us who are learning to honor our parents as adults and come alongside our friends with kids. Our first guest is actor and author Candace Cameron Buré, who was famously parented in the beloved sitcom Full House and is now the one doing the parenting in Netflix’s Fuller House. She shares about her own experiences growing up in Hollywood and how giving back was modeled to her at an early age by her own mother.  Offset, Candace has been a mom for more than two decades and shares the joys and challenges of “surrendering to motherhood” during a season of professional success, and how she chose to instill small acts kindness into her daily life in an effort to positively impact her family and the world around her.

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Nearly forty years ago, they met at camp. Then they got married. Now they’re running the same camp! This week, we’re closing out For the Love of Summer with our crowdsourced episode, featuring Stacy and Darell Smith. For more than thirty years, Stacy and Darell have been directors at The Firs, a Christian camp organization in gorgeous Bellingham, Washington. And they have seen it all: kid tomfoolery, pet shenanigans, pranks galore. They’ve even rigged dates between their camp counselors (some of which resulted in wedding bells!). Stay and Darell are experts in summer magic and creating memories for kids (and leadership skills in young adults) that’ll last a lifetime. By the end of this conversation, you’ll want them to adopt you, too.

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School’s out, the pool/beach/lake is calling, and vacation is just around the corner. For many of us, summer fashion means flip flops, sundresses and living in our bathing suits. For others, summer clothing choices, where often “less is more,” can cause a case of the summer blues.  Today’s guest gives us pro-tips that will help EVERY body to make fun, fashionable and affordable summer choices for all the things we love about summer. Lizz Wasserman is VP of Fashion at ModCloth, a forward thinking clothing and accessories company who endeavors to make fun, beautiful clothes for women of every shape, size and pocketbook. Jen and Lizz discuss common summer clothing challenges, how to create a summer capsule wardrobe, and the miracle bathing suit that looks good on just about everyone (Jen has it in four colors!). We also learn that by simplifying our summer wardrobes to just a few key clothing items that make us feel our best, we can have that easy and breezy summer we've always dreamed of.

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Summertime is book time. Whether you’re by the pool, on a road trip, clutching your pearls in the AC, or on a cruise (#jealous), now’s the time to escape. And there’s no one better for book talk than Anne Bogel, author and founder of Modern Mrs. Darcy, the loveliest reading and lifestyle blog you ever did see. Anne stopped by to tell us a few of her favorite summer reads, and we covered it all: classic beach reads, family sagas, thrillers, nonfiction, books for all the kids, and even Anne’s all-time favorite book (of the moment). And keep your ears peeled for a fun freebie that will help all your summer reading dreams come true.

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Rachel Macy Stafford was missing life. Her planner bulged, her phone buzzed, her calendar constantly full. In a painful moment of realization, Rachel discovered she was choosing distraction over connection with her young family—and she decided enough was enough. In 2010, she started the Hands Free Mama blog, where she documents her journey to slow down and focus on what truly matters. Since then Rachel has become the New York Times bestselling author of three books: Hands Free Mama, Hands Free Life, and Only Love Today. In our conversation, Rachel tells us what living “hands free” means and gives us practical tools to help us slow down. We talk about how to teach our kids to use technology, how to let go of mom guilt, and what kids really want to do with their parents this summer (spoiler alert: it’s not going to Disney World).

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If there were ever a family travel expert, it’s Tsh Oxenreider. In 2014, Tsh and her husband Kyle sold their house, put all their stuff in storage, and went on an almost year-long trip around the world with their three kids—ages four, six, and nine. Tsh wrote this experience in her phenomenal travel memoir At Home in the World.

Today, Tsh kicks off our “For the Love of Summer” series and tells us about her fascinating trip around the globe. She also gives some practical tools to help us make travel memories on any schedule or budget. Tsh has a ton of tips on packing, saving money, setting the right expectations, stewarding our kids’ energy levels, and so much more. Tsh helps us see that we can create lifelong memories with our families with just a backpack, some snacks, and a laid-back attitude.

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It’s the final episode in the “For the Love of Exploring Our Faith” series, and you guys begged to hear from this week’s guest. Not that we blame you—we love him, too! Brett Trapp is a marketing consultant and storyteller who lives in Atlanta’s Cabbagetown neighborhood. The son of a Southern Baptist preacher from small-town Alabama, for more than a decade Brett kept a journal on being Christian and being gay. One morning in 2016, Brett hopped on Facebook and began sharing the story he had been writing privately for so long. In his forty-four-part series, Blue Babies Pink, Brett recounts his journey of growing up, coming out, and reconciling his faith. It’s equal parts whimsical, harrowing, hilarious, and wise.

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What is saving our life right now? Having the matriarch of our favorite question as part of our “Exploring Our Faith” series this week!  Barbara Brown Taylor is a New York Times best-selling author, teacher, and Episcopal priest. Her last book, Learning to Walk in the Dark (2014), was featured on the cover of TIME magazine.  In 2014. TIME also included her on its annual list of Most Influential People.  Long a favorite author of Jen’s, Barbara has a unique way of sharing essential truths about beauty and about God, and shows us that it cannot be contained inside any walls that people build. Her view is that Jesus “placed higher value on human relationships than on religion. He never told his followers to love their religion—just their neighbors, their enemies, and God."

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This week we’re coming in strong in our For the Love of Exploring our Faith series with New York Times bestselling author, speaker and self-proclaimed “Bible Nerd,” Rachel Held Evans. Rachel’s writings have resonated with many of us who have walked through doubts, questions and concerns about faith and religion. Rachel shows how the Bible can hold up to our fiercest questions, our strongest doubts and the most significant of disagreements.  She encourages us that “God is not a God of self-improvement plans and 10 steps. Ours is a God of death and resurrection—and that God can take anything and bring it to life.”

NOTE: This interview was conducted while Rachel, 9 months pregnant, was having contractions at a minute a part—and although we were hoping for an on-air podcast baby arrival, we still claim our part in the process (and Jen lobbied hard for namesake rights). Congratulations, Rachel, from all of us at the For the Love Podcast on the arrival of your baby girl!

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We’re 5 episodes into our “For the Love of Exploring Our Faith” Series and the Christian guru of love himself, Bob Goff, joins Jen on the show this week. Bob’s journey has been one of taking risks, defying norms, and living by faith. A self-proclaimed “recovering lawyer,” Bob left his practice after 25 years to embark on a path of love. He wrote a book about his journey to and from that point called Everybody Always which became a staple to Christians (and others) about what it means to put love into action. Bob and his wife Maria have demonstrated that “love in action” to Jen and Brandon’s family over the years, and they discuss what it looks like to be present and sacrificial in our relationship with others (that includes the difficult people in our lives), and how Jesus calls us to love “Everybody Always.” 

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We continue to explore our faith in Eps 4 of this series with writer and speaker AUSTIN CHANNING BROWN. Austin is a practitioner who helps schools, nonprofits, and religious organizations confront racism and practice genuine inclusion. Her writing has appeared in outlets like Christianity Today, Relevant, Sojourners, and The Christian Century. Austin insists that to make significant strides, “We have to know where we've been—before we can figure out where it is we're going." Austin and Jen wrestle through a tough review of America’s history of racial division and discuss meaningful next steps toward repentance, equality, and healing. “We all can do something, and it’s our job to figure out what that something is, and let that lead to more somethings." You won’t want to miss this one.

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Our powerful series “For the Love of Exploring Our Faith” continues with author, community leader and story-teller Josh DuBois. Josh has had the unique role of being “The President’s Pastor In Chief” during Barack Obama’s early years of presidency. He spearheaded important work on responsible fatherhood, grassroots community partnerships and foreign affairs. From there, he’s dedicated his life to help companies, individuals and communities navigate tough issues related to race and religion. He uses his platform to support dramatic and documentary films that tells stories that bridge the divides around racial issues and religion. He gives an inside view into the Obama administration and the commitment to faith he found from the first family during his tenure with the White House.

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