The Fried Egg Golf Podcast

Routing is perhaps the most important step in designing a golf course, but it’s a difficult concept for non-architects to understand. How can a regular golfer “read” the routing of a course that has already been built? Garrett explores this question with golf architect Jeff Mingay (@jeff_mingay) for the fifth edition of the School of Golf Architecture. In the first of two episodes, Garrett and Jeff discuss the basic elements of effective golf course routing—elements that any golfer can recognize during a round.

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Golf architect Jaeger Kovich joins the podcast to recall his time as a shaper for Hanse Golf Course Design during the firm's 2016 restoration of Aronimink Golf Club. This week, Aronimink plays host to the KPMG Women's PGA Championship.

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Stephen Britton, Superintendent at Chevy Chase Country Club joins the podcast this week. He discusses his beginnings at Royal Melbourne and how it spurned an eventual move to America, his time working for TPC Potomac and hosting PGA Tour events, and what it was like to work at Wimbledon.

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Geoff Ogilvy joins Andy to breakdown the 2020 U.S. Open. The pair focus in on the setup of Winged Foot and how it amplified DeChambeau’s talents while also discussing the future of golf given Bryson’s style of play. Geoff also talks about Sandy Links, the municipal course he grew up playing, its recent renovation.

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The 1974 U.S. Open, better known as the "Massacre at Winged Foot," has become a touchstone in the debate over what a golf championship should be. Depending on your perspective, it's either the U.S. Open at its best or the U.S. Open at its worst. With the national championship returning to Winged Foot this week, we ask what it means for a tournament venue to be insanely difficult. Our guests for this episode are Hale Irwin, Neil Regan, Mark Mulvoy, and Jeremy Schaap, reading from his father's classic book about the tournament. Produced and hosted by Garrett Morrison. Edited and engineered by J Vierck. Transcript assistance from Jay Fischl. Music by Blue Dot Sessions.

Brought to you by the U.S. Open Victory Club.

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John Bodenhamer, the USGA's Senior Managing Director of Championships, joins the pod this week to discuss all things U.S. Open! Andy and John work through this week’s setup, differences we’ll notice between this event and the 2006 U.S. Open, and how the USGA manages championships without fans. They close the conversation with a few thoughts on the USGA’s new anchor site.

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Geoff Ogilvy, winner of the last U.S. Open contested at Winged Foot, joins the podcast to preview the 2020 U.S. Open. Andy and Geoff start by discussing the FedEx Cup Finals and Geoff's thoughts on the format. Then they delve into Geoff's winning effort in 2006 and his predictions for the 2020 edition.

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In 1947, Jackie Robinson became the first Black man to play Major League Baseball in the 20th century. You're probably familiar with that story. What you may not know is that the baseball diamond was not the only playing field where Robinson advocated for racial equality. He also did so on the golf course. In this edition of our audio documentary series, we tell the complicated, sad, even inconvenient story of Jackie Robinson the golfer. Produced and hosted by Garrett Morrison. Edited and engineered by J Vierck. Production assistance from Jay Fischl. Music by Blue Dot Sessions.

Sponsored by the U.S. Open Victory Club. Sign up for free!

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Neil Regan, Winged Foot Golf Club's historian, sits down with Andy to discuss Winged Foot's rich history, from Babe Ruth's exploits at the club to Monty's struggles on the 18th hole in 2006. Regan was extensively involved in Hanse Golf Course Design's recent restoration of the course, and he tells Andy about the thinking behind the green expansions.

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One hundred and seventy-nine episodes after his first appearance, Stewart Hagestad rejoins The Fried Egg Podcast to discuss his run to the quarterfinals at the U.S. Amateur last week. Andy and Stewart talk not only about the tournament but also about how Bandon Dunes compares to other competitive venues, how match play contrasts with stroke play, their favorite amateur events, and the upcoming U.S. Open, which Stewart is preparing for right now.

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After an exciting PGA Championship, Andy and Garrett get together to discuss how TPC Harding Park fared in its major championship debut. They contemplate both  virtues and flaws of its design, routing, and setup, and they compare it to Winged Foot, the host of the upcoming U.S. Open. Also, they get into some broader trends in municipal golf, specifically the contrast between "mega munis" and "mini munis" that Garrett explored in a recent article for The Fried Egg website.

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In this edition of our audio documentary series, we tell the story of Harding Park, a course that has, at different points in its history, represented both the best and the worst of municipal golf. This week, it hosts the 2020 PGA Championship, but just 22 years ago, it served as a parking lot for the 1998 U.S. Open. We talk to Bo Links, Ron Kroichick, Sean Elsbernd, Joe Shasky, and Sasha Perigo about these highs and lows, and also about the benefits and drawbacks of city golf in general. Produced and hosted by Garrett Morrison. Edited and engineered by J Vierck. Music by Blue Dot Sessions.

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Geoff Ogilvy returns to catch up with Andy Johnson about the latest happenings on the PGA Tour and to discuss the upcoming PGA Championship. Geoff talks about his fascination with the golf swing, which grew during the quarantine, and what he thinks the keys will be at Harding Park.

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Tony Nysse, the Director of Golf Course and Grounds at Mountain Lake, joins the podcast to discuss his affinity for golf course architecture and his career in the turf industry. Tony's many stories include giving architectural advice to a developer while in college, interning at Friar's Head, and restoring Old Marsh.

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Kerry Haigh, the Chief Championships Officer of the PGA of America, joins Andy to discuss next week's PGA Championship at Harding Park. The conversation centers on Kerry's approach to setting up major championship golf.

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In our latest talk with golf architect Tom Doak, we dive into a number of listener questions. Tom addresses whether Donald Ross is overrated, the ideas behind some of his greens at Lost Dunes, and which par 3, 4, and 5 from Scotland he would put in his backyard.

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In the second part of his recent conversation with Andy, Tom Doak explains why St. Andrews Beach—a design of his outside of Melbourne, Australia—is one of his favorite courses in the world. Later, he and Andy discuss the impact of Covid-19 on the design business and the golf world in general, and how this moment compares to 9/11 and the financial crisis of 2008. The episode wraps up with a discussion of the potential of East Potomac Golf Course in Washington, D.C., which Tom is set to restore.

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Tom Doak is back! The lead architect at Renaissance Golf Design joins Andy to talk about his latest book project, Getting to 18. They discuss the writing process,  a few excerpts from the book, the story of how Tom met Bill Coore, and the secrets behind the routings of Pacific Dunes and the original Sheep Ranch. To purchase Getting to 18, a limited-edition book, visit doakgolf.com .

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This is the third and final episode of our miniseries on the design, history, and impact of the golf ball. It explores how advanced plastics made their way into the modern, solid-core ball, bringing the promise of “better things for better living through chemistry” to the game.

Guests: Harry Brown, Joe Henley, Mark O’Meara, and Dean Snell.

Music by Blue Dot Sessions.

Brown, Golf Ball

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This is the second episode of our miniseries on the design, history, and impact of the golf ball. It recounts the advent of the wound ball—the Haskell—and the ensuing debate over the future of the game.

Guests: Bob Crosby and Brett Cyrgalis.

Music by Blue Dot Sessions.

Through the Green

Cyrgalis, Golf’s Holy War 

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This is the first episode of our miniseries on the design, history, and impact of the golf ball. It focuses on the invention of the gutta percha ball and the surprising backstory of gutta percha itself.

Guests: Harry Brown, Stephen Proctor, and Helen Godfrey.

Music by Blue Dot Sessions.

Brown, Golf Ball Proctor, Monarch of the Green Godfrey, Submarine Telegraphy and the Hunt for Gutta Percha

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Hall of Famer Curtis Strange joins Andy Johnson to discuss his storied career as well as recent events on the PGA Tour. Curtis tells Andy about his closing eagle to win the NCAA Championship, his back-to-back U.S. Open wins, and his near-miss at the 1985 Masters. The conversation also touches on the rise of a beefed-up Bryson DeChambeau and the recent split between Fox Sports, where Curtis was an analyst, and the USGA.

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Aaron McMaster, the Superintendent at Orchard Lake Country Club, joins Andy to talk turf. They discuss the ins and outs of making agronomic changes to a golf course before diving into the story of Orchard Lake’s renovation by Keith Foster.

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Last week, the National Park Service announced that it would begin negotiations with National Links Trust to operate three municipal golf courses in Washington, D.C. A non-profit founded by Michael McCartin and Will Smith, NLT has partnered with architects Tom Doak, Gil Hanse, and Beau Welling in hopes of renovating the East Potomac, Rock Creek Park, and Langston golf properties. Andy speaks with Mike and Will about this exciting development in a story that The Fried Egg has been tracking since last year. Among other topics, they discuss the RFP process, the NLT’s visions for the courses, the importance of compelling municipal golf architecture, and the role that D.C. golf facilities can play as community gathering spots and agents for social change.

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In the latest edition of the Yolk with Doak, Tom discusses the principles behind his Confidential Guide series, the value of randomness in design, and a unique new project of his near Napa Valley.

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In this edition of our audio introduction to golf course design, Garrett speaks with architect Andy Staples (@buildsmartrgolf) about collaboration on construction projects. They discuss how Andy works with owners, contractors, and shapers; what “design-build” means and how people often misunderstand it; and whether architects get too much credit. For more on these topics, check out the post for this episode on The Fried Egg website.

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Steve Cook, the Director of Grounds at Medinah Country Club, joins the podcast. Andy and Steve talk about his long career, including his time in France and his experience prepping courses for major championships. They also discuss Steve’s management style, which has helped produce a number of up-and-coming leaders in the turf industry today.

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John Bodenhamer, the USGA's Senior Managing Director of Championships, joins Andy Johnson on the podcast. The two talk about John's golf background and his time on some of the great early 80s BYU teams before diving into championship setup. The discussion finishes with a conversation about 2020's USGA championships and how they will go about filling the fields without qualifying.  

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As an appetizer for the upcoming Tiger-Phil (plus Manning and Brady) match, Andy and Garrett speak with golf historian Stephen Proctor about the history of challenge matches. They discuss the importance of rowdy, big-money matches to early golf culture in Scotland, the eventual ascendancy of stroke play as the dominant competitive format, and the ways that today's televised matches might recapture some of the magic of the past. Stephen is the author of Monarch of the Green, a biography of Young Tom Morris.

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This episode of the Yolk with Doak features the final part of the conversation Andy and Tom had this past January in Traverse City, Michigan. They discuss a variety of topics, including the challenges of building on linskland, Mike Strantz, Woking Golf Club, stymies, and how golf might mesh with environmentalism.

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On Sunday, May 17, four of the best golfers in the world will take on one of the best courses in the world. Rory McIlroy, Dustin Johnson, Rickie Fowler, and Matthew Wolff are set to play in TaylorMade Driving Relief, a televised charity skins match at Seminole Golf Club in Juno Beach, Florida. The rarely publicized Seminole is known as one of Donald Ross's most subtle and brilliant designs. To understand the course better, Andy talks to architect Bill Coore, who along with Ben Crenshaw restored Seminole in 2017, and PGA Tour pro Zac Blair, who has played the course several times in the annual Seminole Pro-Member.

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Renaissance Golf Senior Associate Brian Schneider joins Andy to talk golf course architecture. The discussion starts with Brian’s work at North Jersey CC, a Walter Travis design, and ranges from Llanarch CC's above-ground features to Augusta National to Langford & Moreau’s bold shaping. Follow Brian on Twitter (@bschneider126) and Instagram (bschneidergolf).

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Rich Shilling, superintendent of Jeffersonville Golf Course, joins the podcast. Andy and Rich discuss Jeffersonville’s improvement during his time there and the unique challenges of upgrading a course while continuing to allow public play. They also talk about his future plans and how the municipality approaches budgeting for renovations.

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In the third installment of our serialized introduction to golf course design, we explore how architects and shapers make courses feel at home in their surroundings. Specifically, we discuss tie-ins, the features that connect the manmade landforms of a golf hole to the preexisting surroundings. To learn more about this subtle art, Garrett speaks with Riley Johns (@RileyJohnsGolf), one of the architects behind the Winter Park Nine and the new short course at Forest Dunes. After listening to the episode, check out the accompanying post on The Fried Egg website.

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LPGA player Christina Kim joins the program this week. She discusses the importance of individuality, the Ladies European Tour vs. the LPGA, her quick rise as a junior player, her favorite courses around the world, and much more!

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PGA Tour player Joel Dahmen takes time out of his Arizona quarantine to join Andy Johnson this week. The two talk about Mario Kart, qualifying for the U.S. Open after a trip to the bar, playing with big-name players, and just what he is doing during all this time off.

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Tom Doak returns to discuss a variety of topics with Andy, including topographical maps, green books, drivable par 4s, and the evolution of restoration projects in recent times. Tom also gives a quick update on his work at his new project at Sand Valley and answers some listener questions.

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The second part of our serialized introduction to course design profiles the first and most influential golf architect: the linksland. Coastal dunescapes gave the sport its first fields of play as well as its founding ethos. To learn more about how terrain has shaped the game, Garrett talks to George Waters (@gwatersgolf), the Manager of Green Section Education for the USGA and the author of the book Sand and Golf. Make sure to check out the accompanying post on The Fried Egg website; there you will find additional resources on the topic and outtakes from the interview with George.

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Josh Lewis, superintendent at Sharon Heights Golf and Country Club, joins Andy for the latest installment of our Superintendent Series, brought to you by the Toro Company. They talk about the impact COVID-19 has had on the turf industry before digging into Josh’s early days at Coos Bay, Bandon Dunes, Pasatiempo, and Chambers Bay. Follow Josh on Twitter @theturfyoda.

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Geoff Shackelford joins Andy to discuss the whirlwind of coronavirus news and the likely short- and long-term impacts of the pandemic on golf.

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In this installment of our audio documentary series, we go back to a time when the PGA Tour operated out of a four-bedroom home in Ponte Vedra Beach. Not far from that home was a flat expanse of swampy jungle. We tell the story of how commissioner Deane Beman and architect Pete Dye turned that land into a new kind of golf venue—and how the pros reacted when they competed on it for the first time. This episode features interviews with Beman, U.S. Open and Players champion Jerry Pate, architect Tom Doak, TPC Sawgrass project manager Vernon Kelly, and journalists Adam Schupak and Sean Martin. It includes music from Assaf Ayalon, Avi Goldfinger, Maya Johanna, Ian Post, and Swirling Ship, and Kevin McLeod.

Sean Martin, “Leap of faith: Behind the Stadium Course’s wild debut at the 1982 Players Championship”

Adam Schupak, Golf’s Driving Force

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Michael Keiser, Jr., the Managing Partner at Dream Golf, joins the podcast. The Keiser family and Dream Golf have been behind some of today's premier resorts, including Bandon, Sand Valley, and Cabot. Michael and Andy discuss working outside of golf, the failed Bandon Muni project, collaborating with some of today's greatest golf course architects, pushing the boundaries of an industry, and more. 

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Welcome to School of Golf Architecture, The Fried Egg’s serialized introduction to golf course design. In this first installment, Garrett digs into the notion of place. He speaks with architect and builder Blake Conant about “place-based design” and the various ways in which a golf course can cultivate a strong sense of place. Toward the end of the discussion, Blake leads Garrett to a realization about the importance of building and preserving unique places in the modern world.

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Current Georgia State University assistant golf coach Nick Mackay joins Andy to talk about his years as a golf agent. The two discuss what Nick looks for in young players and the intricacies of the business side of professional golf, from sponsorship deals to costs of trying to "make it." The pair finish with a discussion of Patrick Reed's antics and the Premier Golf League. 

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Renowned golf course superintendent and architect Roger Null joins Andy for the latest installment in our Superintendent Series, brought to you by The Toro Company. Roger has nearly a half century of experience in the golf business, serving as a superintendent at Cedar Rapids CC and Old Warson CC, a design consultant at many courses in the Midwest, and even a general manager at Boone Valley GC. He is also an accomplished amateur player, with three GCSAA National Championships to his name (though Andy suspects the actual number is higher). Roger and Andy talk about how Roger got his start as a greenskeeper, what has changed in course maintenance in the past few decades, the difficulty of growing grass in St. Louis, how his work as an architect influenced his approach as a superintendent, and many other topics.

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Our series with golf architect Tom Doak continues with another segment of Andy and Tom’s recent conversation in Traverse City, Michigan. They begin with a series of listener questions, covering topics like green-to-tee transitions, golf culture in Africa, the pros and cons of Bandon Dunes and Scotland as golf destinations, Tom’s ongoing links project in Ireland, his growing interesting in the business side of golf development, and the importance of not pretending every new thing is the best thing ever. A discussion of common misinterpretations of well-known golf architects leads to an extended reflection on Pete Dye. They talk about how Tom would split 10 rounds at Dye-designed courses, the Dye family’s willingness to share knowledge and help Tom jump-start his career, and Pete Dye’s influential insistence on studying a variety of far-flung courses.

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Revolution Sports Performance Founder Barrett Stover joins Andy to discuss golf fitness. The two talk about the common misconceptions and easy ways golfers can stay more active and improve their golf games. 

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For the first time since Episode 46, golf course architect Mike DeVries joins Andy on the podcast. DeVries was introduced to the game at Crystal Downs Golf Club in Michigan, and he worked for Tom Doak and Tom Fazio before starting his own design business. His best-known work is Cape Wickham Links on King Island in Tasmania, but he has also built several excellent, affordable public courses in his home state of Michigan. Mike and Andy discuss two of his accessible designs in the Grand Rapids area, Diamond Springs and The Mines, before speaking more broadly about the dual influences of Perry Maxwell and Alister MacKenzie, the joys of walking, and the challenges of routing courses on severe sites, such as the one where Mike’s stunning Greywalls course sits.

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The latest edition of our audio documentary series focuses on Tiger Woods’s first tournament as a professional, the 1996 Greater Milwaukee Open. But this isn’t a story about what happened on the course. Instead, we dig into the action in the press room, in front of the cameras, and during commercial breaks. It was in those spaces that the public image of Tiger, the myth of him as a professional golfer, began to be invented. And not everything went smoothly at first. This episode features interviews with two-time U.S. Open champion Curtis Strange, Wieden+Kennedy ad man Jim Riswold, GMO tournament director Tom Strong, and journalists Jaime Diaz and Gary D’Amato. It includes music from Tristan Barton, Sebastian Borromeo, D Fine Us, Kevin Graham, Kloyd, Ian Post, and Kevin McLeod. Check out our sponsor, Visit Milwaukee, at visitmilwaukee.org/golf.

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