For Heaven's Sake

As we enter the ninth week and a new, post-ceasefire phase of the Israel-Hamas War, the gap between Israeli and North American Jewish perspectives continue to widen. While Israelis count and mourn each Israeli casualty, North American Jews are increasingly demanding greater consideration for civilian casualties in Gaza as well as the humanitarian crisis there. In this episode, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi discuss the experiences shaping these divergent perspectives and how Israelis might approach concern over civilian life and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza as they fight for the existence of Israel. 

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Correction: When Donniel Hartman references the testimony of the three university presidents (min 2:38), he mistakenly lists Yale University instead of University of Pennsylvania.

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For Jews around the world, the nightmare of October 7th is compounded by the harsh and deafening condemnation of Israel’s military action. In this episode, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi explore the dynamics of Jewish power and vulnerability, the ramifications of labeling Israel’s actions as genocidal, and the question of whether antisemitism is at play.   

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How does a country engaged in war grapple with moral issues? On Thursday, November 30, Yuval Kestelman, an Israeli civilian and good Samaritan, was shot and killed by an IDF soldier after shooting a terrorist at a Jerusalem bus stop. Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi explore the ethical implications of labeling this incident either an accident or a crime, the influence of the government’s right-wing agenda and Hilltop Youth roots, and the parallels with the 2017 case of Elor Azaria, a soldier who killed a wounded Palestinian terrorist.  

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Major funding for For Heaven’s Sake is provided by the Diane and Guilford Glazer Foundation of Los Angeles. This special episode of the War edition is sponsored by Nancy Cahners. 

We are six days into a ceasefire, and the first wave of hostages have returned home. The national unity that emerged from the attack on October 7 and subsequent war is beginning to fray. In this episode, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi discuss the unrelenting emotional toll of this crisis and the strains on Israel’s togetherness, including mounting international pressure, pre-existing political divides, and the leadership vacuum.  

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By the third day of the ceasefire, Hamas had released 58 hostages, 40 of them Israeli, in exchange for 78 Palestinian prisoners. While Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi celebrate the captives’ return to their families, they take note of the ways that this hostage situation is different from any the nation has faced in its history. They also consider how this moment challenges the Zionist ethos and explore the dilemmas the country will face as this 4-day truce agreement reaches an end. Will Israel risk the chance to redeem the rest of its captives safely if it returns to fighting against Hamas?

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What does it mean to have resilience in the face of tremendous loss?  

In this episode, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi discuss how soldiers are processing their trauma from combat in Gaza and bear witness to Israel’s staggering civilian presence at the funerals of fallen soldiers. They explore the imminent ceasefire, hostage and prisoner exchange, and the ramifications of this deal on Israel’s security and the nation’s psyche. 

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What does Gaza look like after this war is over? A recent poll showed thirty percent of Israelis favoring a renewal of Jewish settlements in the Gaza strip. While considering the popularity of this sentiment surprising and troubling, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi discuss why some Israelis have developed this view. They ask: what it will take for Israelis to feel safe living alongside a Palestinian state after the devastation and violation of October 7?

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As the IDF takes control of Gaza’s Al-Shifa hospital, the controversy around this hospital serves as a paradigm for the conflicting views about the broader war. For many Jews, Israelis, and allies of Israel, Shifa represents the evil nature of our enemy; for critics, the operation at Shifa reflects everything that is wrong with Israel. Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi discuss the struggles, risks, and consequences of adhering to moral principles while fighting against an immoral enemy.

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As the Israel-Hamas war continues into its sixth week, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi discuss how Israel’s Arab-Palestinian minority have become scrutinized and even punished for mourning their kin in Gaza and how Jewish Israelis might have sympathy for the complicated dual loyalty their fellow citizens need to hold.

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As the Israeli military response to Hamas continues to escalate, Israelis have struggled to envision how Israel will rebuild and heal once the war is over and consider what an end to Hamas would mean for Palestinians.Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi begin this important work by imagining what the dawning of a new day will look like for the future of Israel and Gaza.

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“From the River to the Sea, Palestine Will Be Free” can be heard at many Palestinian solidarity demonstrations today, and while it seems at face value to be a rallying cry for justice, its connotation is uncompromisingly hostile to the existence of Israel and to Jewish sovereignty in the region. Why, then, do activists abroad, including some Jews, chant it in protest of Israel’s current actions in Gaza? 

In this episode, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi reflect on the meaning of this slogan and how the October 7 massacre sheds a sobering light on its implications. They ask if they, as Israelis, can listen to this hateful rhetoric from critics and consider an almost impossible question – what can we learn from it?

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As Israel’s war with Hamas rages on, and the anxiety in Israel continues to grow, the Sword of Damocles hangs over the head of every Israeli. Each day brings the threat of losing another friend, relative, or community member to the violence. Israelis are struggling to reconcile divergent goals: the desire to eliminate Hamas versus a need to safely return the hostages to their families and keep our soldiers safe. In this episode, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi discuss the impact of this ever-present dread and the ways we steel ourselves for, and deal with, the massive onslaught of grief we are experiencing, which will only continue to increase.

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In the middle of the night on Saturday, Benjamin Netanyahu posted a tweet blaming the heads of Israel’s military intelligence and Shin Bet security service for failing to anticipate the October 7th attack by Hamas. Though he later apologized, the post reflected the Prime Minister’s continued avoidance of taking responsibility, prioritizing his own political advancement over the needs of the people.

In this episode, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi discuss Prime Minister Netanyahu’s leadership failure, the role of criticizing one’s society and leadership even during a moment of crisis, why leaders must take responsibility for what they didn’t prevent, and the power of Israeli civil society taking up the slack in this leadership vacuum.

Mentioned in this episode:

• The Eglah Arufah (ritual for an unsolved murder): Deuteronomy 21:1-4.

• Reference to this ritual in the Kahan Report, 1985.

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On October 24th, United Nations Secretary-General Guterres delivered remarks on the war between Israel and Hamas. While he condemned the terror attacks, demanded immediate release of all hostages, and called for a ceasefire, he also contextualized the war within the broader history of the occupation and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This prompted Israel’s ambassador to call on Guterres to resign and signaled to many the all-too-familiar waning embrace of global support for Israel. Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi discuss the nuances of context and justification, morality and war, and how language can engage or isolate allies.

Why Is Israel Being Blamed for the Hamas Massacre? By Yossi Klein Halevi

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On day 16 of the war with Hamas, the IDF is poised for a ground invasion into Gaza, marching into the unknown. What awaits the troops when they enter? Will this embroil Hezbollah, Iran, and perhaps the US, into a broader regional clash? Most importantly: what price are Israelis willing to pay to win this war?

Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi discuss their anxieties about this moment and consider the unspoken and unprecedented willingness of the Israeli public to do whatever it takes in order to defeat the existential threat of Hamas to the State of Israel.

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On October 17, a blast at Al Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza killed many Palestinians. Israelis and Palestinians were quick to blame each other for the blast, which has now been confirmed as a misfired rocket from the Islamic Jihad.

Recorded on October 18, as conflicting reports continue to spread across both social media and international media outlets, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi explore the ramifications and ethics of warfare, consider how this incident brought the tragedy in Gaza into our consciousness, and grapple with the role of journalists in a time when reporting happens too quickly before facts are confirmed.

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As we enter into week two of this horrifying war, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi struggle with the question of if there are moral red lines when responding to absolute evil and if there are, how do we define them. Noting that Israelis are entering this discussion wounded, grieving, enraged, and scared, they acknowledge our need to fight the war fully while grappling with who we want to be not just who we are at this moment.

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The number of fatalities continues to rise. As Israel's new reality of unfathomable horror begins to set in, many took comfort in the latest speech by US President Biden, in which he called the Hamas attack "pure evil". From Jerusalem, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi explore what it means to confront evil. What happens when the behavior of others descends from wrongful to outright evil, and how do we cope with it?

This is day five of Israel at War.

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Israel is at War. This past Shabbat, Saturday morning, October 7, Israel faced an unprecedented, ruthless, and devastating attack by Hamas. Hundreds of Israelis have been killed, thousands injured, and many are in captivity. Israelis are fighting for their country, and Jews around the world are supporting these efforts from afar with prayers, messages, and resources. In an effort to keep our listeners connected and updated during this painful and difficult time, For Heaven's Sake will be releasing episodes every few days to address what's happening in Israel and unpack the complex and distressing events of this war. This is For Heaven's Sake: Israel at War.

Recorded on October 9, in this first episode of this series on our For Heaven's Sake feed, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi discuss their emotional response of sadness and outrage to the attack and to Israel's nascent war. They reflect on the burning question of how did this attack and the IDF's delayed response even happen given Israelis' confidence in their army.

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Historically the Arab world, and Saudi Arabia in particular, has acted as a force in encouraging Palestinian rejection of Israel. With recent and unprecedented shifts in the geopolitical landscape, could a formal alliance with Saudi Arabia be a reality for Israel? Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain explore the security implications of a deal with Saudi Arabia, how the Israeli public might respond, and whether Prime Minister Netanyahu, for whom peace with Arab neighbors was always a strategic goal, will consider forming a new coalition.

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The High Holidays are a time for reviewing our successes and failures, individually and collectively, but also a time for looking forward to future possibilities. In this episode, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi reflect on what they describe as one of the most traumatic years in Israeli history, the "pathologies" of Jewish theology and psyche that brought us here, and what it might take for 5784 to be a turning point in restoring a sense of cohesiveness and shared purpose to Israeli society.

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For many Israelis, the IDF has long been considered the people's army, a beloved and trusted institution that represents the nation's Zionist ethos and serves as an expression of Jewish solidarity. Now, in the midst of one of Israel's most violent period's since the second Intifada, and with significant opposition by thousands of voluntary reservists to the government's judicial overhaul plans, that trust threatens to dissolve and leaves in its wake a security threat. Complicating matters further is a pending bill that would grant Haredi Jews an exemption from military service. Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain explore what this moment means for Israel's solidarity, its ability to defend itself, and where to begin to repair this fracturing.

Following major protests for the past 29 consecutive weeks and despite opposition from President Herzog, Defense Minister Gallant, the international community, and President Biden, this week the Knesset passed a bill ending the Supreme Court's ability to nullify government officials' decisions on the basis of their reasonability just three days before Tisha B'Av. In this episode Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain explore the significance of this moment, the importance and challenge of resisting zealotry, and the long-term vision for Israeli democracy.

For the 28th week in a row, protests against the proposed judicial overhaul continue in Israel. Saturday night's rallies drew tens of thousands of supporters, including our hosts, Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain, who participated in Jerusalem. In this episode, they discuss the reasonableness standard, a judicial doctrine that, if amended, will have far-reaching implications for the future of Israeli democracy. Should any attempts at reform by the current government be treated as illegitimate? And how should protesters know when to put their foot down over the government's actions?

Settlers in the West Bank now play a major role in both domestic and international Israeli affairs, and they are a powerful force in Israeli politics. In this episode, Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain talk about the various reasons that people live in the West Bank, explore in depth the commitments and values of those who live over the green line for ideological reasons, consider why some settlers have recently become more violent, and discuss how the various motivations for living there have shifted over time.

After nearly six months of weekly demonstrations in Israel, the inevitable protest fatigue is starting to set in. Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain explore how to capitalize on the energy and commitment of the pro-democracy movement and ask: Has liberal Israel finally awakened, and is it ready for the long, hard work of transforming Israeli society?

Over the past few decades, Israel's Haredi community has transitioned from the political periphery to a position of power and influence. Now at the center of Israeli public debate, longstanding resentments around the community's promotion of its own interests as well as its self-proclaimed role as "guardian of Jewishness" are resurfacing. Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain ask: are there any compromises that will contain Haredi power or will the rise of the Haredim necessarily come at the expense of mainstream Israel? Will the Haredi community's surging population mean the inevitable end of liberal Israel?

The Nakba (catastrophe) and Israel's legitimacy are often seem as a zero-sum game: you can acknowledge one or the other, but not both. Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's recent speech at the United Nations during the first ever formal commemoration of this day (May 15th) did little to assuage this polarization. But many who live in Israel encounter fellow Israeli citizens for whom the Nakba is a central part of their identity. Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain explore these tensions and complexities as Zionists. They ask: can we acknowledge Palestinian suffering, especially in relationship to Palestinians who are citizens of Israel? Can we hear their stories without endorsing their political conclusions, and is there room for a cautious Zionist exploration of the Palestinian narrative of Nakba?

The religious Zionist demographic makes up about 10% of the Israeli population, yet it has emerged as one of the most influential segments of society, both within the government and in the country at large. This demographic is undergoing significant change, from being primarily focused on issues of security, territory and settlement, to being at the forefront of the government's judicial revolution. Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain dive into the complexities of the religious Zionist community's evolution and its relationship to Netanyahu's governing coalition.

Elana Stein Hain new book, Circumventing the Law, is available for pre-order: https://www.pennpress.org/9781512824407/circumventing-the-law/

Netta Barak-Corren's English paper on the Judicial Reform:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_r-5u_lT6TIc27SjireMrlNux1roM72C/view

A large segment of Israeli society is approaching the country's 75th anniversary with a sense of anxiety. Will a democratic Israel withstand judicial reform and be changed forever? Will defending the vision of Israel as both a Jewish and a democratic state help unify a largely divided Jewish population in Israel? In this Yom Ha'atzmaut episode, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi, reflect on the resilience that the ruling coalition's recent attacks on Israeli democracy have exposed and evoked across many groups within Israeli society, as well as their own evolution and commitments to Jewish and pluralistic values.

Is funding from Jews in the Diaspora problematic? If so, when and in what context? Should there be limits on financial support and what they should be? In this episode, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi talk through the role of money and the culture of support in Israel-Diaspora relations.

This week, the largest protests in Israeli history forced Netanyahu's governing coalition to put a pause on its judicial reform. Can the government that brought the country to the brink of civil war be trusted to advance a needed judicial reform process? What needs to happen to build a civil society and create a coalition that could lead Israel through the next phase? Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain discuss the internal mechanics that are motivating Netanyahu's coalition government, the key aspects of this reform that make it so problematic, and the constraints of politics on the human conscience.

Last week, President Herzog publicly called for the Netanyahu-led government to rescind its current judicial overhaul plan and resume talks with the opposition. Unheeded, the government's legislative blitz continued as protests against the government gather momentum. Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain explore the complexity of the coalition government, the line between civil disobedience and conscientious objection, and how much longer Israel can continue to defy the odds as a fractured society.

Avi Sagi Article (in Hebrew) https://heb.hartman.org.il/resisting-commands-civil-disobedience/

This week a gunman shot and killed two Israeli brothers driving through the West Bank town of Huwara, which was later rampaged by Jewish settlers who burned cars and buildings overnight and into the day. Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain talk through the grief, shame and devastation that marks this week's events as well as this broader breakdown of justice in Israeli society.

Should Israelis be inviting Diaspora Jews to intervene in Israel’s internal debates? In a recent open letter, Yossi Klein Halevi, Matti Friedman, and Daniel Gordis argue that they must. In this episode, Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain talk though the letter and explore the tensions between Jewish Peoplehood and national identity, and the responsibility of all Jews to protest policies in the Jewish state that may be antithetical to Jewish values.

The recent spike in violence including the terrorist attack last Friday in Neve Yaakov, which was the worst terrorist attack in over a decade, left seven dead at a neighborhood synagogue. This happened against the political backdrop of Netanyahu's government openly opposing a two-state solution, with parts of the coalition pushing for massive settlement expansion and eventual annexation. Meanwhile the Palestinian Authority has suspended security cooperation with Israel, which has been crucial in preventing terror attacks against Israel from Hamas – as well as protecting the Palestinian Authority itself from Hamas. How do we speak realistically about our aspirations for a path forward for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain explore why mainstream Israeli society has become disinterested in discussing the conflict and the importance of maintaining hope.

For those who oppose Netanyahu's far-reaching plans to weaken the independence of the judiciary, this is an essential moment that has the potential to fracture the Israeli public beyond repair. But what will that fracturing look like, and will it turn into something more violent than we've seen in the past? In this episode, Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain discuss what motivated hundreds of thousands to protest in Tel Aviv (including our co-hosts), the growing schism in Israeli society, and what a civil war would mean for Israel.

North American Jews have maintained a balancing act between their commitment to Israel and their commitment to liberal values. Members of the new Israeli government have been making provocative, anti-democratic statements as well as taking positions that aren’t just complicated – they’re simply wrong. Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain explore keeping one's love of Israel at the forefront, whether Jewish Israeli or part of the Jewish Diaspora, while responding to the new government's problematic policies.

How can Israelis respond constructively to the threat to democracy posed by Netanyahu's new government including ultra-orthodox and ultra-nationalist coalition partners? Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain ask how Liberal Zionists can reorient themselves, their political alliances, and their conversations to protect Israel as a Jewish and Democratic state.

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The Law of Return stipulates that any Jew can return to the Jewish homeland and claim immediate Israeli citizenship. Who qualifies as a Jew, under that law, has been a source of contention throughout the history of the state. Netanyahu's newly-formed coalition government may seek to change major aspects of the law, bringing the debate back into the public conversation. On this episode, Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain maneuver through thought-provoking questions about belonging to the Jewish people. Is Israel the state of the Jewish people or is it the state of Judaism? Who should be defined as Jews? Is Jewishness an ethnicity, a set of religious observances, or both?

In the fallout of Israel's election, Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain navigate the strangeness of this moment for many in the liberal Jewish camp who are experiencing it as a moment of mourning. In this episode they ask: How do Jews who oppose the values of the coming governing Israeli coalition make themselves heard right now? Can Israel learn from Americans' experience under Trump? Is it possible to build bridges with extremists, and is it possible to separate peoples' ideologies from the candidates they support?

This is a recording of a live event held on November 1, 2022. In the minutes before the election results come in, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi discuss the campaign and then reflect on the right's electoral victory and what it portends for the State of Israel, the future of Zionism, and the Jewish people.

Only two years ago, Netanyahu declared that Itamar Ben Gvir, the most popular leader on the far-right with deep roots in the racist Kahanist movement, wasn’t fit to be a minister. Now, Netanyahu affirms that he would be a part of any future government. Will a coalition with Ben Gvir unravel the social fabric of Israel? Is the threat he represents exaggerated? How should Israeli liberals and moderates respond? Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi discuss Israel's upcoming fateful and potentially dangerous election.

Register here for Donniel and Yossi's Election Day livestream on Tuesday, Nov 1, 10:30pm Israel / 3:30pm Eastern.

Israeli voters have been stalwart in their political party loyalties and no amount of campaigning seems able to sway them. When voters define themselves by their party, what values are they actually expressing? Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi and Elana Stein Hain ask what are the meaningful divisions that we can discern within the parties themselves and is the political divide an expression of ideological, tribal, or cultural divides?

What can public and private observances of Rosh Hashana teach us about the relationship between Jewishness and Israeliness today? Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi and Elana Stein Hain explore how the High Holidays are experienced in Israel, what this tells us about the state of Judaism and Jewish identity in the country, and how Israeli observance is different from that of American Jews.

With Israeli elections less than two months away, polls are showing that the Religious Zionist party, a coalition of religious ultra-nationalists and followers of the late, racist Rabbi Meir Kahane, could win as many as 13 seats, making it an indomitable political force. After a summer hiatus, For Heaven's Sake is back with Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi, and Elana Stein Hain to ask about the causes of this unprecedented rise in religious fanaticism in Israel?

The ninth day of the Hebrew month of Av (Tisha B'Av) commemorates the destruction of the two Temples and the exile from the land of Israel. It is a day of national reckoning with our collective sins and failures asking us to mourn as a means of preventing future tragedy. How realistic is that expectation? And if Tisha B’Av isn’t working, how do we encourage a culture of collective introspection in our increasingly polarized society? Join Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi as they explore whether national sovereignty is a condition for collective penitence and spiritual renewal.

When Haredi men recently attacked American Jews celebrating a Bar Mitzvah at the egalitarian section of the Western Wall, there was little outrage in Israel. When Jews are attacked anywhere in the world, we respond. Why does Israeli society tolerate this kind of antisemitism? Listen to Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi and Elana Stein Hain's live recording from Jerusalem as they discuss the roots of Haredi aggression against fellow Jews and the seeming indifference of the Israeli mainstream.

This week, Prime Minister Naftali Bennett dissolved the one-year-old government that he formed (in his words) “l’shem shamayim,” for the sake of heaven, to affirm the unity of the people of Israel. Bennett’s opponents on the right have insisted that they, too, were acting for the sake of Heaven by affirming their deeply held truths. Join Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi and Elana Stein Hain in an episode recorded live from Jerusalem as they discuss the balance between truth and love of the Jewish people and ask: when is one required to affirm his or her truth and when is compromise necessary?

Israel may have the most diverse government – not only in its history but anywhere in the democratic world. For its supporters, this government is a model of pluralism and dedication to the common good but that is not the feeling among a majority of the public. Why is there such a vast gap between those who see this coalition as a government of national salvation and those who see it as a government of national catastrophe? Join Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi and Elana Stein Hain as they discuss why this government is failing to win the hearts of Israelis.