The Lawfare Podcast

This episode of “Lawfare Live: “Trump’s Trials and Tribulations” was recorded on December 5 in front of a live audience on Youtube and Zoom.

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Quinta Jurecic, and Roger Parloff, Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien, and Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett about Jack Smith’s motions to dismiss the federal prosecutions of Donald Trump, where the state cases stand, and so much more for the last regular edition of this series. Find the Lawfare auction here.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

For today’s podcast, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Joel Braunold, Managing Director of the S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace, for the latest in their series of podcast conversations on aspects of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This time, they focused on what might be one of the most consequential developments in recent memory: Donald Trump’s return to the White House.

They discussed who seems likely to steer policy toward the conflict in the incoming Trump administration, how the approach may differ from Trump’s last stint in the White House, and what it all may mean for Gaza, the West Bank, and the broader region.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week, Scott was joined by his Lawfare colleagues Eric Ciaramella and Anastasiia Lapatina, as well as special guest Kyiv Independent reporter Francis Farrell, for an episode committed to one big topic: what Trump’s return to the White House might mean for Ukraine. They tackled the issue in three parts:

• “What Condition My Attrition Is In.” By most accounts, after more than two years of fighting, the conflict in Ukraine has come to look very much like a war of attrition. How do Ukrainians feel about the state of the conflict and the prospects looking forward? What steps are the outgoing Biden administration taking to change the calculus—and what impact might they still have, if any?
• “New Boss, Same as the Old Boss.” Donald Trump’s return to the White House promises a sea change in how the United States has approached the conflict in Ukraine. What do his early national security appointments—and engagements with, among others, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky—tell us about his plans? And where do they seem likely to lead?
• “Flipping the Board.” Trump’s election—and whatever outcome he is able to bring about in Ukraine—has the potential to reset the strategic environment in Europe (and the U.S. strategic relationship with Russia) more generally. What might regional security—and security for Ukraine specifically—look like by 2028?

For object lessons, Nastya recommended Catherine Belton’s new book, “Putin’s People,” on the return and rise to power of the KGB. Eric gave a belated endorsement for the Oscar-winning South Korean film “Parasite,” and urged folks to watch it as a celebration of the democratic resilience South Korea demonstrated this week. Scott plugged the holiday variety show he was attending that evening and urged listeners to welcome the season with Aimee Mann’s “One More Drifter in the Snow.” And Francis recommended GeoGuessr, the geolocation game that has taken the KI newsroom by storm.

Rational Security will be saying goodbye to 2024 in its traditional fashion: by discussing listener-submitted topics and object lessons! To submit yours, call in to (202) 743-5831 to leave a voicemail or email rationalsecurity@lawfaremedia.org. Just do it by COB on December 18!

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Andrew Yeo, Senior Fellow in the Foreign Policy Program and SK-Korea Foundation Chair of the Center for Asia Policy Studies at the Brookings Institution, to talk about the current turmoil in South Korea. Within about 48 hours, there was a declaration of martial law, the National Assembly convened to rescind the declaration of martial law, South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol accepted it, and now he faces impeachment. Yeo breaks down what’s going on and what it all might mean for the future of U.S.-South Korea relations in a second Trump administration.

You can watch a video version of their conversation here.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ukraine has been pursuing NATO membership for many years. But what realistic options does it have in light of Russia’s full-scale invasion? Historian and author of a book about tensions between the NATO and Russia “Not One Inch,” Mary Sarotte, sits down with Lawfare Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina to describe what lessons Ukraine can take from the cases of Norway and West Germany.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sherri Goodman was the first Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Environmental Security and has worked on issues around climate change, the environment, and security for more than 35 years. She joined David Priess to discuss her work on the staff of the Senate Armed Service Committee starting in the 1980s, her impressions of Senator Sam Nunn, her duties as the first Deputy Under Secretary of Defense (Environmental Security), the campaign to clean up the Defense Department's nuclear-related facilities, her visits to Russia in the 1990s, the threat climate change poses to military facilities, the US military as an environmental crisis responder, how climate change and environmental concerns have changed military training, climate change as multiplier of opportunities as well as a multiplier of threats, and more.

Works mentioned in this episode:

Threat Multiplier by Sherri Goodman

Military Responses to Climate Hazards (MiRCH) Tracker, at the Center for Climate & Security

New Cold Wars by David Sanger with Mary Brooks

Orbital by Samantha Harvey

The Heat and the Fury by Peter Schwartzstein

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor and Georgetown professor Daniel Byman sits down with Charles Lister, Director of Syria and Countering Terrorism & Extremism Programs at the Middle East Institute for an update on the Syrian opposition taking Aleppo and the prospects for the civil war going forward. They discuss the status of the Syrian conflict; the nature of the key group, Hayat Tahrir al-Sham; why conflict happened now; and what might happen going forward.

You can watch a video version of their conversation here.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff speaks with Claire Meynial, U.S. correspondent for the French news weekly Le Point, about her recent book, “La Guerre des Amériques,” or “The War of the Americas.” Meynial discusses how she came to write her book about the political divisions in America, based on hundreds of interviews across the country over the past three years. They discuss the results of the 2024 election, Jan. 6, Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio, Jan. 6 defendant Guy Reffitt and his family, the New York criminal cases against Trump, and how the French public responded to all these events.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From July 10, 2018: #AbolishICE is the hashtag that has proliferated all over Twitter. Anger over the family separation policy of the Trump administration has many people doubting whether the agency that does interior immigration enforcement is up to a humane performance of its task. Paul Rosenzweig, former policy guru at DHS where he supervised immigration matters, and Carrie Cordero, who has been actively engaged on the subject recently, joined Benjamin Wittes to discuss the substance of our immigration laws. Would abolishing ICE actually make a difference, or would it just be renaming the problem with three other letters?

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From April 23, 2019: Michael Anton, former Trump administration national security official and a research fellow at Hillsdale College, has published an essay in Foreign Policy explaining what he calls the 'Trump Doctrine' on foreign policy. Recently, Anton sat down with Jack Goldsmith to discuss the new article and the philosophy behind Trump's foreign policy, particularly with respect to liberal internationalism and international institutions.

They discussed the administration's foreign policy successes and failures, how it's similar to and different from prior administrations in substance and in rhetoric, and whether the president's style and aversion to diplomatic norms inhibits the substance of his foreign policy.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Despite the Russian launch of a new ballistic missile against Ukraine, the ATACMS not being a game-changer, and a front that is eroding in several key areas, Ukrainians are actually optimistic about the incoming Trump administration. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Lawfare Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina and Eric Ciaramella of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace to talk about all of these issues and more.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From March 12, 2019: As the nation braces for the forthcoming end of special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into President Trump and his associates, The Lawfare Podcast decided to take a look back at the complete history of special prosecutors.

Benjamin Wittes sat down with Andrew Coan, a professor of law at the James E. Rogers College of Law at the University of Arizona. Coan recently published "Prosecuting the President," which traces the history of how special prosecutors and counsels work to keep the executive branch accountable for its actions. Ben and Andrew discussed the book, the Teapot Dome Scandal, the Whiskey Ring, and what all of that might mean for the future of special counsels.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Molly Reynolds, Senior Fellow at Brookings and Senior Editor at Lawfare, sits down with Mike Stern, a lawyer specializing in congressional legal issues and former Senior Counsel to the U.S. House of Representatives, and Donald Sherman, Executive Director and Chief Counsel at CREW, to discuss the Senate confirmation process and expectations for congressional oversight in the 119th Congress. They discuss the tools available to the Senate now and after the start of the new Congress in January, legal questions related to President-elect Trump’s potential plans for recess appointments, and what issues related to congressional oversight to watch next year.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Rachel Shelden is Associate Professor of History and Director of the Richards Civil War Center at Penn State University. She joined David Priess to talk about the disputed presidential election of 1876 and how the political system found a way to avoid widespread violence and another civil war while resolving it in 1877. They discussed Abraham Lincoln's huge impact on kids growing up in Illinois, the status of Reconstruction by 1876, US political culture in the late 19th century, Rutherford Hayes and Samuel Tilden, what happened on election day and night, how Congress handled contradictory election returns from three states, the creation and operation of the special commission created to resolve the issue, how Hayes won, what we can take away from 1876-77, and the importance of Constitutional creativity and flexibility.

Works mentioned in this episode:

"Americans worry about 2020 being another 2000, but the real worry is another 1876," by Rachel Shelden and Erik B. Alexander, Washington Post, October 20, 2000.

Washington Brotherhood by Rachel Shelden (2013)

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Chris Mirasola, Assistant Professor of Law at the University of Houston Law Center, to discuss the legal and practical considerations surrounding a president’s ability to deploy the military at the U.S. southern border, particularly in light of President-elect Trump’s recent endorsement of “declar[ing] a national emergency” in order to “use military assets” for “a mass deportation program.” They discuss the implications of a national emergency declaration for immigration enforcement, the existing legal framework and historical context, and concerns about using the National Guard in a law enforcement function. They also talk about the logistics of building detention facilities, the Insurrection Act as a significant legal tool that could expand military authority in domestic contexts, and more.

For more on this topic, read Chris’s recent Lawfare article, “How Can Trump Deploy the Military at the Southern Border?”

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

At a recent conference co-hosted by Lawfare and the Georgetown Institute for Law and Technology, Georgetown law professor Paul Ohm moderated a conversation on "AI Regulation and Free Speech: Navigating the Government’s Tightrope,” between Lawfare Senior Editor Alan Rozenshtein, Fordham law professor Chinny Sharma, and Eugene Volokh, a senior fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From July 27, 2023: Last month, Brazil’s highest electoral court found that former President Jair Bolsonaro had abused his political power in the 2022 elections because of his conduct in a meeting with foreign ambassadors in Brasília in July 2022. For this violation of the country’s election laws, the electoral court banned Bolsonaro from seeking public office until 2030.

Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Emilio Peluso Neder Meyer, Professor of Constitutional Law at the Federal University of Minas Gerais, Brazil, and Thomas Bustamante, Professor of Legal Theory at the Federal University of Minas Gerais, Brazil, to discuss Brazil’s search for accountability and justice in the aftermath of the coup attempt on Jan. 8, why the electoral court’s ruling was not so much a legal innovation as a mere application of existing laws, and the significance of President Lula’s decision not to rely on the military in his government’s response. They also discussed what’s next for Bolsonarismo.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From June 30, 2023: On Thursday, South Africa’s Department of International Relations confirmed it would host the 15th BRICS Summit in August. Normally, this wouldn’t make the news. But because South Africa is a signatory to the International Criminal Court, the country is obligated under international law to arrest one of the summit’s invitees—Russian President Vladimir Putin—the moment he sets foot in Johannesburg.

This presents South Africa with what Nosmot Gbadamosi has dubbed a “Putin problem.” 

Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Nosmot Gbadamosi, a multimedia journalist and the writer of Foreign Policy’s weekly Africa Brief, to discuss this diplomatic dilemma, why US-South Africa relations have withered in recent months, and the incoherent Russia-Ukraine “peace mission” led by President Cyril Ramaphosa just weeks ago. They also discussed what the late Eusebius McKaiser has called South Africa’s “nonsensical nonalignment” since the Russian invasion of Ukraine last year and what nonaligment even means in light of the war.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

After more than a year of pleas from Kyiv, the U.S. finally let Ukraine use Western long-range weapons for attacks inside Russia. Lawfare Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina sits down with Fabian Hoffman, a doctoral research fellow at the University of Oslo, to talk about the strategic and tactical effects of such attacks, what’s behind the timing of this decision, and why it took so long for the U.S. to finally change course.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week, Scott sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Molly Reynolds and Alan Rozenshtein, and with University of Houston Law Center Assistant Professor of Law Chris Mirasola, to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

• “Troops, There It Is.” President-elect Donald Trump raised eyebrows this week when he suggested that he intended to declare a national emergency and use U.S. soldiers to implement his planned deportation of undocumented migrants from the United States—the first of many potential domestic uses of the military some fear he will pursue. But does the president have the authority to use the military in this way? And is a(nother) national emergency really necessary?
• “Break It ‘Til You Make It.” Some have expressed serious doubt as to whether the incoming Trump administration’s flurry of highly controversial nominees for senior positions in government will be able to successfully make its way through even the Republican-held Senate. But doing so may not be necessary, as Trump’s allies are reportedly exploring a legal scheme by which he can use a never-before-used authority to adjourn Congress to force the Senate into an extended recess, and then appoint his preferred nominees as recess appointments. How plausible is this legal theory? And what role is it likely to play in Trump’s confirmation strategy?
• “Rolling Back the Clock.” While he was once one of TikTok’s greatest enemies, President-elect Trump has changed his tune: on the campaign trail, he came out against the ban on the controversial social media platform passed by Congress, which is sent to go into effect early next year if its China-associated owners do not divest. Will Trump try to come to TikTok’s rescue? And if so, what could he do?

For object lessons, Alan recommended the childrens’ audio player “Yoto,” to the fervent applause of the other guests and their young children. Molly embraced her Patrick Radden Keefe fandom one more time to recommend FX’s forthcoming adaptation of his book, “Say Nothing.” Chris endorsed Jon Batiste’s new album “Beethoven Blues.” And Scott urged listeners to follow his lead and take in an aptonymous double-feature this weekend: the new film “Saturday Night” and the first ever 1975 episode of “Saturday Night Live” that it’s about.

Note: We will be taking the week of Thanksgiving off, but we’ll be back with a new episode of Rational Security on Thursday, December 5. We’re thankful for your continued support of the show!

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Since the assassination of Haitian President Jovenel Moïse in July 2021, the country has been plagued by gang violence, a destabilized government, and an ongoing humanitarian crisis. Lawfare Associate Editor for Communications Anna Hickey sat down with Dr. Robert Fatton, emeritus professor of government and foreign affairs at the University of Virginia to discuss the rising gang violence in Haiti, whether the incoming Trump administration will change the United States’s response, and how the international community has responded to the deteriorating situation. 

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Chris Johnson, Director of Legal Affairs and Space Law for Secure World Foundation and an adjunct professor of law at Georgetown University, joins Kevin Frazier, Senior Research Fellow in the Constitutional Studies Program at the University of Texas at Austin and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to discuss the laws, policies, and geopolitical trends shaping the governance of space. The two analyze how space policy may change in the Trump Administration and how ongoing international negotiations may alter existing norms and expectations in outer space.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Donald Trump is going back to the White House and is already busy stocking his future Cabinet. Shane Harris sat down with two of The Washington Post’s best political reporters to talk about Trump’s victory, some of his initial choices for top national security positions--which are drawing extraordinary controversy--and what we might expect in Trump’s second term. 

Ashley Parker and Josh Dawsey covered Trump’s first term in office as White House correspondents. They also covered his latest campaign and are reporting now on what is shaping up to be another chaotic presidential transition. 

Read some of their latest reporting here: 

• https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/11/06/how-donald-trump-won-presidential-election/ 
• https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/11/09/harris-biden-trump-election-defeat/ 
• https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/11/16/trump-transition-cabinet-controversy/

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lawfare Associate Editor Olivia Manes sat down with with Marlene Laruelle, a Research Professor of International Affairs and Political Science at The George Washington University, and Director of GW's Illiberalism Studies Program, to discuss the financial, ideological, and historical connections between the American far-right and Russia. Marlene discussed the distinction between confluence and influence, white supremacist notions of a "pan-white" nation embodied by Russia, the role of the Russian Orthodox Church in fostering connections, and more.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Christie Hicks, the Managing Attorney overseeing Earthjustice's Clean Energy Program, and Mandy DeRoche, a Deputy Managing Attorney in Earthjustice's Clean Energy Program, join Kevin Frazier, Senior Research Fellow in the Constitutional Studies Program at the University of Texas at Austin and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to explore the intersection of environmental law and national security as the Biden administration prioritizes AI development. Drawing on the extensive experience of Christie and Mandy in utility regulation and environmental advocacy, they collectively examine the tensions between the push for advances in emerging technologies and existing environmental commitments, grid stability requirements, and clean energy goals.

Discussed in the show:

• Texas Lt. Gov. Patrick's tweet: https://x.com/LtGovTX/status/1800968003636408657
• The NSM on AI: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2024/10/24/memorandum-on-advancing-the-united-states-leadership-in-artificial-intelligence-harnessing-artificial-intelligence-to-fulfill-national-security-objectives-and-fostering-the-safety-security/

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From September 21, 2021: A new book by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa contains reporting about several controversial actions by Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley in late 2000 and early 2021, regarding conversations with his Chinese counterparts, his discussion with senior military officers about following standard nuclear procedures (if need be), and reaching out to others like the CIA and NSA directors to remind them to watch everything closely. Were each of these reported actions proper for a Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and why? And what about all of this coming out in books?

To talk through it all, David Priess sat down with an A-team on civil-military relations. Peter Feaver is a civil-military relations expert at Duke University and director of the Triangle Institute for Security Studies. He served in National Security Council staff positions in both the Bill Clinton and the George W. Bush administrations. Kori Schake is the director of foreign and defense policy at the American Enterprise Institute who has worked in the Joint Staff J5, in the Office of the Secretary of Defense and in the National Security Council’s staff, as well as the State Department's policy planning staff during Bush 43’s administration. She has also researched and written extensively on civil-military relations. And Alex Vindman is Lawfare’s Pritzker Military Fellow and a visiting fellow at Perry World House. His government experience includes multiple U.S. Army assignments, time inside the office of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and in the National Security Council staff.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Scott Anderson, Alan Rozenshtein, and Quinta Jurecic and Executive Director of the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection Mary McCord about Donald Trump's picks for his Cabinet and senior-level administration positions, including Matt Gaetz as attorney general and Pete Hegseth as secretary of defense, the possibility of Trump using the recess appointment power, and more.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Madeleine Baran and Parker Yesko, investigative reporters with the New Yorker’s In the Dark podcast, join Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to discuss In the Dark: Season 3, which tells the story of a small group of Marines who killed 24 civilians in Haditha, Iraq, on Nov. 19, 2005.

They also discussed “The War Crimes That the Military Buried,” a new database of possible American war crimes committed in Iraq and Afghanistan, which Baran and Yesko compiled over the course of their four-year investigation. 

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Anna Bower, Eugenia Lostri, and Roger Parloff to discuss the week’s big national security news, including:

• “Putting the Dismal in Dismissal.” Donald Trump’s election as president for a second time puts the state and federal criminal charges against him—and potentially some of his supporters and co-conspirators—in unprecedented historical territory. Where do these cases seem to be headed? And what will it mean for the broader effort at accountability, especially around Jan. 6?
• “Taking Bytes Out of Crime.” As one of its last acts in power, the Biden administration seems poised to support a forthcoming U.N. convention on cybercrime, despite reservations among some observers that it may be abused by autocratic regimes and strategic rivals. Why is the Biden administration tempted by the treaty? And what will its support at this late hour mean in practice?
• “Meme of Rivals.” Donald Trump is only one week in as president-elect but has already released a flurry of appointments and rumored appointments for senior positions in his forthcoming administration. And those appointed range from established Republicans like Sen. Marco Rubio, who is rumored to be Trump’s pick for Secretary of State, to iconoclasts like billionaire Elon Musk, who is co-heading a “Department of Government Efficiency” (or “DOGE”). What should we make of these selections thus far—and the process behind them?

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this episode, Lawfare Contributing Editor Justin Sherman sits down with Jacqueline Ford and Ronnie Solomon, attorneys in the FTC Division of Privacy & Identity Protection, to discuss the FTC’s new 6(b) staff report on the data practices of nine social media and video streaming companies, from Twitch to Discord to YouTube. They discussed the report’s findings on data collection, retention, and use practices, and cover the privacy impacts of these practices, their intersections with FTC regulatory powers, and what the report authors recommend next.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Eugenia Lostri, Senior Editor at Lawfare, sat down with Jonathan Horowitz, Deputy Head of the Legal Department to the ICRC’s Delegation for the United States and Canada, to discuss his recent article, “The Business of Battle: The Role of Private Tech in Conflict.” They talked about how international humanitarian law principles can affect the private digital sector, the risks that tech companies can face when they provide services to a party in an armed conflict, and what they should do to minimize those risks. 

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

As the U.S. tries to come to grips with a resurgence of political violence in recent years, it's instructive to look at how the norm against political violence eroded during the late Roman Republic and contributed to ultimately autocratic rule.

Catherine Steel, Professor of Classics at the University of Glasgow, specializes in the political history of the Roman Republic and its institutional structures and has written books and articles about the period. She joined David Priess to discuss her path from studying Cicero to researching and teaching the politics and history of ancient Rome, the core political features of the Republic, the concept of tribunal sacrosanctity, the challenges of dealing with primary sources on ancient Rome, how political violence flared in 133 BCE around Tiberius Gracchus, the political violence 12 years later around his brother Gaius Gracchus, the 20 years of off-and-on political violence around Marius and Sulla, the intent and effects of Sulla's constitution, the lead-up to Julius Caesar, Roman citizens' awareness of changes in the Republic, implications for today, and more.

Works mentioned in this episode:

• The Storm Before the Storm by Mike Duncan
• Mortal Republic by Edward J. Watts
• The End of the Roman Republic, 146 to 44 BC, by Catherine Steel
• "The Roman Senate and the Post-Sullan res publica," Historia (Journal of Ancient History) 63:3 (2014) by Catherine Steel
• Roman Republics by Harriet Flower
• The Art of Forgetting by Harriet Flower
• Ancestor Masks and Aristocratic Power in Roman Culture by Harriet Flower

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jack Goldsmith sits down with Keith Whittington, David Boies Professor of Law at Yale Law School, to discuss his new book, “The Impeachment Power: The Law, Politics, and Purpose of an Extraordinary Constitutional Tool.” They discuss what the Constitution says about the impeachment power, how we should think about high crimes and misdemeanors, why impeachment shows that Congress is the preeminent branch of government, and the goals and values of impeachment. They also discuss the abuse of the impeachment power given current politics and what can be done about it, as well as whether Trump should have been convicted and disqualified in the second impeachment.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From February 10, 2018: In his recent New York Times bestseller “Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic,” David Frum, senior editor of The Atlantic, lays out a compelling account of how President Donald Trump’s tendencies could push the United States toward the illiberalism that many Americans believe the republican system of government to be immune to. In an event on Feb. 7 at the Brookings Institution, Frum sat down with Jonathan Rauch, Elaine Kamarck, and Lawfare’s Benjamin Wittes for a conversation and Q&A on the book and Trump’s threats to democracy.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From November 12, 2016: This week, the Lawfare Podcast brings you a joint episode of the show together with Rational Security. The usual Rational Security gang—Shane, Ben, Tamara, and Susan—reflect on the results of the election and ask: What national security themes drove Donald Trump's supporters? What challenges does Trump face forming a government? And how will America’s allies react to his election?

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Molly Reynolds and Quinta Jurecic to discuss how Congress may change given the results of the 2024 election, what congressional oversight might look like during President-elect Donald Trump’s second term, how Congress will work with Trump’s administration, and more in a live recording on Lawfare’s YouTube channel.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson and Lawfare Contributing Editor Brandon Van Grack sat down with Devin DeBacker, the Chief of the Foreign Investment Review Section at the U.S. Department of Justice, to talk about the new program his office is setting up regulating foreign transactions involving bulk data on Americans.

Together, they discussed the contours of the new regulatory program, what sorts of exploitation of Americans’ data it aims to prevent, and how it intersects with other steps Congress has taken, including the recent Protecting Americans’ Data from Foreign Adversaries Act.

This episode is part of our special series, “The Regulators,” co-sponsored with Morrison Foerster, in which Brandon and Scott sit down with senior U.S. officials working at the front lines of U.S. national security and economic statecraft.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode of “Lawfare Live: Trump’s Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on November 7 in front of a live audience on YouTube and Zoom.

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Scott R. Anderson, Anna Bower, and Roger Parloff about how Donald Trump winning the 2024 presidential election will impact the criminal cases against him, his ability to pardon himself and his co-defendants, and more.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On Tuesday, November 5, former President Trump won the 2024 presidential election, becoming the second president to win a non-consecutive second term. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Alan Rozenshtein, Scott R. Anderson, Anna Bower, and Quinta Jurecic to discuss what happens now. They talk about what a second Trump administration may bring and what to keep an eye out for during the transition in a live recording on Lawfare’s YouTube channel.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

For today’s special episode, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson held a series of conversations with contributors to a special series of articles on “The Dangers of Deploying the Military on U.S. Soil” that Lawfare recently published on its website, in coordination with our friends at Protect Democracy.

Participants include: Alex Tausanovitch, Policy Advocate at Protect Democracy; Laura Dickinson, a Professor at George Washington University Law School; Joseph Nunn, Counsel in the Liberty and National Security Program at the Brennan Center; Chris Mirasola, an Assistant Professor at the University of Houston Law Center; Mark Nevitt, a Professor at Emory University School of Law; Elaine McCusker, a Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute; and Lindsay P. Cohn, a Professor of National Security Affairs at the U.S. Naval War College. 

Together, they discussed how and why domestic deployments are being used, the complex set of legal authorities allowing presidents and governors to do so, and what the consequences might be, both for U.S. national security and for U.S. civil-military relations more generally.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It’s Election Day, but we’re not talking about the campaign. Shane Harris welcomes Tim Naftali back to the show to talk about Americans’ fascination with the presidency. When did the “modern presidency” begin? When did voters and the press become fixated on presidents’ private lives? And what do we get wrong about the nation’s highest office? 

Naftali, a presidential historian, was last on Chatter in June 2022 to talk about Watergate, a subject on which he’s one of the country’s leading experts. Today’s conversation helps put the momentousness of this year’s election in some historic perspective. Have a listen while you’re standing in line to vote! 

People, plays, and policies discussed in this conversation include: 

• Theodore Roosevelt, the first modern president: https://millercenter.org/president/roosevelt/life-in-brief 
• Oh, Mary! by Cole Escola: https://www.ohmaryplay.com/ 
• The presidential “kill list”: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/newly-declassified-document-sheds-light-on-how-president-approves-drone-strikes/2016/08/06/f424fe50-5be0-11e6-831d-0324760ca856_story.html 
• The Jimmy Carter “running” photo: https://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2025424_2025864_2025986,00.html 
• Teddy White: https://www.nytimes.com/1986/05/16/obituaries/theodore-white-chronicler-of-us-politics-is-dead-at-71.html 
• Read more about Naftali and his work: https://www.sipa.columbia.edu/communities-connections/faculty/timothy-naftali 

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dakota Cary, Strategic Advisory Consultant at SentinelOne, joins Lawfare Senior Editor Eugenia Lostri, to discuss his article on U.S. attempts to deter Chinese hacking group Volt Typhoon. They talk about why Volt Typhoon won’t stop its intrusions against critical infrastructure, whether other hacking groups can be deterred, and where we should focus our attention to counter malicious activity.

Materials discussed during the episode:

• "Exploring Chinese Thinking on Deterrence in the Not-So-New Space and Cyber Domains," by Nathan Beauchamp-Mustafaga
• Final Report of the Defense Science Board (DSB) Task Force on Cyber Deterrence, February 2017
• The Atlantic Council report, "Adapting US strategy to account for China’s transformation into a peer nuclear power," by David O. Shullman, John K. Culver, Kitsch Liao, and Samantha Wong

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

An old Soviet bioweapons lab shows new sign of life—and growth. Thousands of North Korean soldiers are in Russia to fight against Ukraine. And Russian President Vladimir Putin seems to have Elon Musk's direct line. What's going on in Russia? 

Lawfare's Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman and Tim Mak of The Counteroffensive to talk through the news of the weird from Russia.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From May 1, 2018: Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt, authors of the new book “How Democracies Die,” join Benjamin Wittes for a conversation about the conditions under which democracies survive and how American democracy can survive its experiment with populism.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode of “Lawfare Live: National Security and the 2024 Election,” was recorded on October 29 in front of a live audience on YouTube and Zoom. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson, Senior Fellow in Governance Studies at Brookings Elaine Kamarck, Visiting Fellow at Brookings and director of the Katzmann Initiative Katie Tenpas, and Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett about what occurs during a presidential transition, what went wrong in 2020, and how Harris and Trump have begun to prepare for the transition.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lawfare Senior Editor Anna Bower and Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sit down with Senior Editor Roger Parloff to discuss David Clements, who has led religiously inspired "trainings" across the U.S. teaching citizens how to stop local election officials from certifying elections the trainees consider fraudulent. Anna describes a training she attended, and Ben discusses, and plays clips from, his two-hour interview with Clements. 

You can read more about this story in the new Lawfare article, "David Clements: The Evangelist of Election Refusal," which includes audio of the full two-hour interview between Ben and Clements.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Alan Rozenshtein, Benjamin Wittes, and Molly Reynolds to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

• “An Eye for an Iran.” After weeks of waiting, Israel finally launched the strikes on Iran it had long promised in response to the volley of missiles Iran hit it with earlier this month. Compared to expectations, the strikes were relatively limited and aimed primarily at Iranian military targets, instead of its nuclear and oil infrastructure. And the United States is now urging an end to these “tit-for-tat” strikes. But is this likely to be the case? Or are Israel’s actions just the beginning of a bigger conflict?
• “He Just Slid into my DMs!” This week, the Wall Street Journal published a stunning report indicating that billionaire industrialist Elon Musk has been having previously undisclosed communications with Russian President Vladimir Putin and other senior Russian officials. How concerning should these conversations be? And what ramifications might they have for U.S. national security?
• “Post Mortem.” Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos’s late decision to squash an official editorial board endorsement of Kamala Harris—and to abstain from presidential endorsements moving forward—has triggered a tidal wave of opposition, leading to hundreds of thousands of canceled subscriptions from a newspaper that was already set to lose substantial sums of money this year. How wrong-headed was Bezos’s move? And what should the proper response be?

For object lessons, Alan hyped the sci-fi classic "Hyperion Cantos," by Dan Simmons. Molly celebrated a profile of a former student of hers by the inestimable W. Kama Bell, which is part of a new Washington Post series on civil servants. Scott urged listeners to get out and participate in democracy this pre-Election Day weekend. And Ben logrolled for Lawfare’s newest podcast endeavor: Escalation, an audio documentary series on the origins of the conflict in Ukraine.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nick Quested, Emmy Award-winning director, discusses with Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff his recent film, "64 Days: The Insurrection Playbook," about the 64 days leading up to the Jan. 6 Capitol Siege. 

They discuss how he came to make the film, his interviews with Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio months before, days before, and then hours after the insurrection. They also discuss the testimony he gave to the Jan. 6 Committee and at the Proud Boys seditious conspiracy trial and the challenges he's experienced in trying to distribute this film. 

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) has taken a leading role in coordinating efforts to secure the 2024 election—from ensuring the physical security of election workers, to protecting election systems from cyber threats, to identifying foreign influence campaigns and preparing for deepfakes. With a week until Election Day, Senior Editors Quinta Jurecic and Eugenia Lostri spoke with CISA’s Cait Conley, Senior Advisor to the agency’s director, about how CISA is working to protect the vote. 

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mark Pomar served as assistant director of the Russian Service at Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, director of the USSR Division at the Voice of America, executive director of the Board for International Broadcasting. He joined David Priess to talk about the origins of US government-funded international broadcasting, differences between RFE/RL and VOA, tensions between strategists and purists over the radios' content, the impacts of detente and of Reagan's more hawkish approach, KGB infiltrations of RFE/RL, changes to the radios toward the end of the Cold War, the role of RL in August 1991's failed coup against Gorbachev, perceptions of the radios after the Cold War, Mark's book Cold War Radio and his current research into Radio Liberty, the relevance of this history for today, and more.

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.