The Lawfare Podcast

On September 7, the Brookings Institution convened a discussion on a pilot program to disrupt online ISIS recruitment spearheaded by Jigsaw, a technology think tank run by Alphabet. Yasmin Green, Jigsaw's Head of Research and Development, presented the organization's new "Redirect Method," which uses online advertisements to reach out to those who might be susceptible to ISIS propaganda. Will McCants of Brookings spoke about the initiative with Green, Ross Frenett of Moonshot CVE, and Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs Richard Stengel. 

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Michel Paradis, a senior attorney in the Department of Defense’s Office of the Chief Defense Counsel and counsel for Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, came on the podcast with Bob Loeb, a partner at Orrick, Herrington and Sutcliffe and the former Acting Deputy Director of the Civil Division Appellate Staff at the Department of Justice. Along with Benjamin Wittes, Michel and Bob discussed the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals’ recent ruling in the Al-Nashiri case. The court denied Al-Nashiri's petition for a writ of mandamus to dissolve the military commission convened to try him and affirmed the ruling of the district court, which denied Al-Nashiri's motion for a preliminary injunction of his trial. In doing so, the D.C. Circuit abstained from ruling on Al-Nashiri’s claim that the military commission lacks jurisdiction to try him, because his alleged war crimes were committed prior to 9/11 and thus took place before the beginning of active hostilities.

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Dave Aitel and Matt Tait come on the podcast to discuss their recent Lawfare essay critiquing the current status of the Vulnerability Equities Process. They argue that the process by which the US government decides whether or not to disclose software vulnerabilities is fundamentally broken, and that now is the time to discuss how to fix it.

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It's the dog days of summer, and Lawfare is bringing you the special August AMA edition. All week, we've been taking your questions on Twitter under the hashtag #LawfareAMA, on topics ranging from Trump to the War Powers Resolution. Now, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes and Managing Editor Susan Hennessey are weighing in with the answers. 

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Walter Pincus, the Washington Post’s recently-retired national security reporter, sat down with Benjamin Wittes at the Hoover Book Soiree to discuss Walter's recent essay, "Reflections on Secrecy and the Press from a Life in Journalism." Walter and Ben chat about Walter’s work in journalism and how his unusual career has shaped his views on the unique responsibilities and difficulties of national security reporting. 

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Director of the Central Intelligence Agency John Brennan came to the Brookings Institution on July 13th for a conversation with Brookings Senior Fellow Bruce Riedel on “CIA’s strategy in the face of emerging challenges.” The two discussed a range of topics, from the Arab Spring, to the drone program, to the importance of integration across intelligence agencies.

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Shadi Hamid is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution’s Project on US Relations with the Islamic World and the author of the new book Islamic Exceptionalism: How the Struggle Over Islam Is Reshaping the World. Shadi sat down with Benjamin Wittes to discuss his book, which examines Islam’s unique relationship with democratic politics and the modern world. It's a thoughtful discussion of liberalism’s complex interaction with Islamic history and politics from the Enlightenment through to the present day.

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Steve Budiansky is the author of Code Warriors: NSA's Codebreakers and the Secret Intelligence War Against the Soviet Union. He joined Ben at the Hoover Book Soiree for a live conversation about his new book, which studies the National Security Agency’s origins in World War II codebreaking and its development throughout the Cold War. Budiansky goes deep into how the organization’s history has shaped its mission and culture. It’s a fascinating discussion of the NSA’s past, present, and future, from the Cold War to the Age of Snowden.

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Will McCants, a Senior Fellow at Brookings and the Director of the Project on US Relations with the Islamic World, comes on the podcast to discuss ISIS’s involvement in the recent spate of terrorist attacks across the globe. To what extent has ISIS really been involved in these attacks? How does their involvement reflect a change in strategy or a response to recent territorial losses? And how does group that presents itself as a caliphate continue to exist without controlling any land?

It’s the Lawfare Podcast Episode #179: Will McCants on “A Caliphate Without A Caliphate.”

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FBI Director James Comey faced the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee this week for live long hours over the Clinton email investigation. We hacked it down to 90 minutes. Just the questions. Just the answers. None of the crap. 

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Assistant Attorney General John Carlin has a new law review article on a "whole of government" and "all-tools" approach to national security cyber threats. He sat down with Benjamin Wittes this week to discuss the article and the progress the government has made in confronting bad cyber actors internationally.

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Department of Justice Computer Crimes Prosecutor Mona Sedky discusses the sextortion cases she has prosecuted and the meaning and danger of this new kind of crime.

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Fred Kaplan joins Benjamin Wittes at a Hoover Book Soiree to discuss "Dark Territory: The Secret History of Cyber War."

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Suzanne Spaulding, Under Secretary for the National Protection and Programs Directorate at the Department of Homeland Security, joins Lawfare's Benjamin Wittes for interview on cybersecurity and the role of DHS is cyberdefense in front of a live a audience.

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The Iran deal adopted in July 2015 was an effort not only to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons but also to avert a nuclear arms competition in the Middle East. But uncertainties surrounding the future of the agreement, including the question of what Iran will do when key restrictions on its nuclear program expire after 15 years, could provide incentives for some of its neighbors to keep their nuclear options open. A Brookings panel--including Robert Einhorn, Richard Nephew, Suzanne Maloney, Amb. Youssef Al Otaiba of the UAE, and Derek Chollet of the German Marshall Fund--discuss a new report on the deal's implementation.

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This week, the American Bar Association hosted a panel discussion on “Achieving More Transparency about Secret Intelligence Programs”, which along with Lawfare's Carrie Cordero, featured comments from Alexander Joel of Office of the Director of National Intelligence and Rachel Brand and the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board. The panel explores recent calls for greater transparency, and examines whether recently adopted principles go far enough. Can an entity oriented towards secrecy by nature operate effectively in an environment of transparency? And just how much more transparent can intelligence agencies be without enabling legitimate targets to avoid surveillance?

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Four years ago, Anwar al Awlaki—an American citizen—was killed in an American drone strike in Yemen, marking the first targeted killing of a U.S. citizen by the U.S. government. While the attack occurred almost four years ago, the legality, morality and prudential nature of the strike, and others like it that occur nearly daily in a scattershot of countries around the world, remain a subject of much debate. 

Last week, Jefferson Powell joined Lawfare’s Jack Goldsmith at the May Hoover Book Soiree for a discussion of Targeting Americans: The Constitutionality of U.S. Drone War, a new book that takes a deep look into the constitutionality of the program. Powell is a Professor of Law at Duke University, and over the hour, he argues that the killing of Anwar al Awlaki under the 2001 AUMF was constitutional, but that the Obama administration’s broader claims of authority are not. He also asserts that American citizens acting as combatants in al Qaeda are not entitled to due process protections. Yet constitutional claims should not be confused with what is moral, or indeed, what is legal under international norms. Those answers, Powell suggests, must be examined through means other than constitutional law.

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This week on the show, Zachary Goldman and Samuel Rascoff of the NYU Center on Law and Security came on the show to discuss their new edited volume, “Global Intelligence Oversight: Governing Security in the Twentry-First Century.” The book’s contributors take a comparative approach to examining trends in intelligence oversight. And Zach and Sam join Lawfare’s Benjamin Wittes and Bobby Chesney---yes, that same Bobby Chesney, back from the Zombie Apocalypse---to tease out the book’s chapter’s on the role of transnational oversight, the changing nature of judicial oversight, and how the executive too can create intelligence accountability.

*Correction: The voice at the beginning of the podcast is that of Zach Goldman and not Sam Rascoff as indicated.*

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Last week, Juliette Kayyem joined Lawfare’s Jack Goldsmith at the Hoover Book Soiree for a discussion of her new book, Security Mom: An Unclassified Guide to Protecting Our Homeland and Your Home. In their conversation, Kayyem, who served as Assistant Secretary for Intergovernmental Affairs in the Department of Homeland Security, distills lessons from her years of government service, outlining a number of smart, measureable guidelines that every American citizen can follow in order to enhance their own security preparedness. In her assessment, homeland security begins in the home, and we all have a responsibility to ensure that our families are prepared in the event that the unthinkable happens. 

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Intel Security's Chris Young gives a talk on the currentcybersecurity landscape. And we hold a debate on using BigData to protect personal privacy, featuring Daniel Weitzner ofMIT, Laura Donahue of Georgetown Law, Susan Hennessey of Brookingsand Lawfare, Greg Nojeim of the Center for Democracy andTechnology, and David Hoffman of Intel: Is Big Data just a privacythreat? Or is it part of the solution too?

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This week on the podcast, Benjamin Wittes and Cliff Kupchan talk about the future of U.S-Russia relations and to delve into the Russian intervention in Syria. Kupchan is the Chairman and Practice Head for Eurasia at the Eurasia Group, where he covers Russia’s domestic and foreign policy, as well as its energy sector. He argues that the United States has good reason to talk to and work with Russia on a host of crises, including Syria. While he calls Russia a “revisionist power without a vision,” he also warns that the United States would be foolish to dismiss the country’s concerns out of hand. Instead, American officials should strive to work with Moscow in Syria, where he argues that the national interest requires it, as an anti-Russian obstructionism will benefit neither the United States nor the international community. 

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Apple and the FBI may have been settled out of court, but that doesn’t mean the fight is over. With Congress on the verge of considering new legislation to compel technology companies to decrypt data, the Going Dark debate is alive and well. 

Last week on a panel at the IAPP Global Privacy Summit in Washington D.C., Lawfare's Editor-in-Chief Ben Wittes and Daniel Weitzner discussed the fallout from the battle between Apple and the FBI and what is likely to come of the Going Dark debate. Weitzner is the Director of the MIT Internet Policy Research Initiative and Principal Research Scientist at the MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Lab; he was formerly the United States Deputy Chief Technology Officer for Internet Policy at the White House. He and Ben parse the contours of the recent dispute between the Bureau and the technology giant, explore the boundaries of commercial use encryption, and debate the role of backdoors in law enforcement investigations. They conclude with thoughts on the policy implications of the latest reemergence of the cryptowars. 

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Eric Schwartz, dean of the Hubert H. Humphrey School of Public Affairs at the University of Minnesota and previously U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Population, Refugees, and Migration, explains why the United States has an interest in alleviating the Syrian refugee crisis. 

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This week, Adam Segal of the Council on Foreign Relations joined Lawfare’s Jack Goldsmith at the Hoover Book Soiree for a discussion of his new book, The Hacked World Order: How Nations Fight, Trade, Maneuver, and Manipulate in the Digital Age. Segal begins at what he calls “year Zero”—sometime between June 2012 and June 2013—explaining that the events in that year ushered in a new era of geopolitical maneuvering in cyber space, with great implications for security, privacy, and the international system. These changes, he suggests, have the potential to produce unintended and unimaginable problems for anyone with an internet connection. 

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This week on the podcast, Lawfare’s Ben Wittes interviews Amy Zegart and Stephen Krasner, both of the Hoover Institution, about their recently released national security strategy called Pragmatic Engagement Amidst Global Uncertainty: Three Major Challenges. The document, which was produced by the Hoover Institution’s Working Group on Foreign Policy and Grand Strategy, presents three key challenges to the future of U.S. security—China, Russia, and unconventional threats—and outlines three principles that should guide the United States’s response, ultimately calling for a pragmatic foreign policy that does not go in search of monsters abroad.

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Last week, General Michael Hayden—the only person to be both the director of the CIA and the NSA—joined Lawfare’s Benjamin Wittes at the Hoover Book Soiree for a discussion of his new book, Playing to the Edge: American Intelligence in the Age of Terror.

Over the course of an hour, Hayden provides an inside look at some of the most critical intelligence decisions since 9/11, including the CIA’s controversial rendition, detention, and interrogation program, the NSA's Stellarwind program, and the U.S.’s interactions with the intelligence agencies of its allies in the following years. In addition to weighing in on the ongoing FBI vs. Apple battle in the CDCA, Hayden also offers his perspective on the successes of the intelligence community, and outlines the challenges it will face in the coming years. 

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This week, the president’s Homeland Security Advisor, Lisa Monaco, made news by announcing that the White House will release long sought data on the U.S. drone program. Delivering the Kenneth A. Moskow Lecture at the Council on Foreign Relations, Monaco outlined the evolving nature of the terrorist threat to U.S. national security. In her address, she notes that we no longer think of sleeper cells, but of lone wolves, and that instead of fighting a top down war, the U.S. finds itself engaging networks where information and inspiration flow both up and down. Monaco outlines how the administration is responding to this new, disparate nature of the terrorist threat.

After her remarks, Monaco was joined by former Assistant Attorney General for National Security Kenneth Wainstein for a Q&A on homeland security.

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The Wilson Center takes on the Apple v. FBI controversy in a panel entitled “Will They or Won’t They? Understanding the Encryption Debate.” Wilson Center President Jane Harman hosts the event, which features Congressman Ted Lieu of California discussing the encryption challenge with Lawfare’s Susan Hennessey and Kate Martin of the Center for American Progress. Politico’s David Perera moderates the discussion.

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This week as the battle between the FBI and Apple raged in a California court, the Bipartisan Policy Center in Washington hosted Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee Michael McCaul (R-TX) and Senator Mark Warner (D-VA) at an event unveiling new legislation that would create a commission tasked with developing viable recommendations on how to balance competing digital security priorities. Under their formulation, the commission would bring together experts who understand the complexity of both the security and technological aspects of the challenge. Following the conversation with Congressman McCaul and Senator Warner, Chris Inglis, Jim Lewis, Susan Hennessey, and Michael German discussed the merits of the proposal, and what the likely outcome would be. David Perera moderated the event. 

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This week we have Leon Wieseltier on the show, who among many other things, is the Isaiah Berlin Senior Fellow in Culture and Policy at the Brookings Institution. Wieseltier is currently completing an essay on the moral, historical and philosophical dimensions of the refugee crisis. During his conversation with Lawfare editor-in-chief Ben Wittes, Wieseltier expresses his frustrations with the United States’ policy in Syria, arguing that the United States has a moral obligation to do more to alleviate the plight of Syrian refugees and that the U.S.’s refusal to act is the great foreign policy failing of our time. According to him, the United States has a responsibility to be more than the “world’s most powerful bystander.”

It’s the Lawfare Podcast Episode #158: Leon Wieseltier on the Moral Dimensions of the Syrian Refugee Crisis. 

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Last week as part of the University of Texas at Austin Strauss Center's conference on "The Frontiers of Cybersecurity Policy and Law," Daniel Placek, formerly one of the key figures behind the underground hacker website Darkode, offered an inside look into what led him to start the website, which Europol once called “the most prolific English-speaking cybercriminal forum to date.” In an interview with NPR News Correspondent Dina Temple-Raston, Placek describes the types of hacker tools once available for hire on the site, and describes what the future of the dark web looks like. He also discusses his cooperation with federal law enforcement officials in their efforts to take down the site. All in all, it’s an interview that shines a light into some of the darkest corners of the web and raises fundamental questions about how such places are policed.

It’s the Lawfare Podcast, Episode #157: Daniel Placek on Darkode.

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This week as Iowa voters took to the caucuses, Brookings hosted a panel discussion on defense strategy for the next president. The panel, moderated by Brookings Senior Fellow Michael O’Hanlon, included Robert Kagan of the Brookings Institution, Mackenzie Eaglen of the American Enterprise Institute, and former Department of Defense Undersecretary for Policy James Miller, all making the case for U.S. leadership in world affairs. During their conversation, they explored the security challenges facing the next president, including two wars, a rising China, a resurgent Russia, and a metastasizing ISIS, all topped off by a contracting defense budget, and examined whether and in what ways those challenges will cause the next president to alter U.S. strategy overseas.

It’s the Lawfare Podcast Episode #156: Defense Strategies for the Next President. 

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Last week at The Brookings Institution, United States Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer participated in a discussion with Lawfare’s Benjamin Wittes and Newsweek’s Dahlia Lithwick about his new book, The Court and the World: American Law and the New Global Realities. During their conversation, Justice Breyer provides an overview of how in a globalizing world, the steady operation of American laws depends more on the cooperation of other jurisdictions than at any other time. He also examines how the Court's decisions regarding presidential power in national security have evolved throughout American history, and weighs how the Court can balance national security objectives in an increasingly connected world.

Strobe Talbott, President of the Brookings Institution, introduced Justice Breyer and the panel.  

It’s the Lawfare Podcast Episode #155: Justice Stephen Breyer on The Court and the World.

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The fourth Hoover Book Soiree held this week in Hoover's beautiful Washington, D.C. offices featured Gayle Tzemach Lemmon on her newest book, Ashley’s War: The Untold Story of a Team of Women Soldiers on the Special Ops Battlefield. At the event, Lemmon, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, and Lawfare’s editor-in-chief Ben Wittes discussed the growing role of women soldiers in special operations and beyond, examining the story of CST-2, a cultural support team of women hand-picked from the Army in 2011 to serve in Afghanistan alongside Army Rangers and Navy SEALs. Their conversation dives into how the program developed, the lessons learned in the process, and why its success may provide critical insights for future force integration. Former Marine and current Lawfare contributor Zoe Bedell, who served in a similar capacity in Afghanistan as the women in CST-2, joined them on the panel.  

It’s the Lawfare Podcast Episode #154: Ashley’s War and the Role of Women on the Special Ops Battlefield. 

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This week, Brookings hosted a discussion on Bitcoin and the technology that undergirds the currency, specifically focusing on the promise of the distributed-ledger. The panel featured David Wessel, Michael Barr, Brad Peterson, Barry Silbert, and Margaret Liu, on how the blockchain could revolutionize payment flows and reduce the cost of financial transactions, all while securing information and enhancing privacy. They also tackle some of the most pressing policy questions facing the technology---from consumer protection to terrorists' finances---and how those tensions can be addressed. 

It's a relatively positive take on Bitcoin and its future potential and an argument for why you should buy back your Bitcoin if you sold it after last week's show featuring Lawfare's Bitcoin skeptic, Nick Weaver. 

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This week we have on Nick Weaver the show. Nick's a regular Lawfare contributor, senior staff researcher at the International Computer Science Institute in Berkeley, California, and as you’ll see, quite the Bitcoin skeptic. Nick walks Ben through what exactly Bitcoin is, answering whether the platform is a financial opportunity of historical proportions, the massive criminal problem law enforcement officials have suggested, or something else entirely—a waste of your money. Nick also outlines some of the design flaws he sees in Bitcoin and why those flaws, which many in the Bitcoin community view as important features, will actually lead to the platform’s downfall. It’s a discussion of Ponzi schemes, the benefits of the blockchain, and the future of international currency transactions.  

It’s the Lawfare Podcast Episode #152: Nick Weaver on Why You Should Sell Your Bitcoin. 

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This week, we asked Lorenzo Vidino and his co-author, Seamus Hughes, both from the George Washington University Program on Extremism, into the studio to discuss their new report, “ISIS in America: From Retweets to Raqqa.” Their study looked at the 71 Americans charged with ISIS-related activities. So what commons denominators did they find within the group? How much of a role does social media play in radicalization and recruitment? And what should law enforcement do to counter violent extremism? We discuss all that and more. 

It’s the Lawfare Podcast Episode #151: ISIS in America: Disrupting Retweets from Raqqa.

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We welcome Edward Lucas, a senior editor at the Economist and author of the new book, Cyberphobia: Identity, Trust, Security and the Internet, to the show this week. At the third Hoover Book Soiree a few weeks ago, Lucas shared a drink with Lawfare’s Ben Wittes and discussed the rapid increase in cybercrime, the difficulties of identity verification on the web, and why, even today, we still do not take cybersecurity seriously enough. Lucas paints a bleak picture of our cybersecurity landscape, but closes with a few recommendations for how we can fix it.

It’s a conversation that prompted Ben to digitally betray his country, and the rest of us to grab our dongles and strengthen our passwords.  

And it’s the Lawfare Podcast, Episode #150: Edward Lucas on the Sum of All Cyberphobias. 

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The show this week features Natan Sachs, a Fellow in Foreign Policy at the Brookings Institution, who recently published an article in Foreign Affairs on anti-solutionism as strategy in the Israel-Palestine conflict.

During his conversation with Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Ben Wittes, Sachs argues that what resembles the absence of a constructive national security agenda is actually better described as a belief on the part of the Israeli right that there are currently no solutions to the challenges Israel faces. Sachs call this policy “strategic conservatism” and explains that it is a philosophy U.S. policymakers need to better understand in order to make smart decisions about the problems in the Middle East.

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At the last Hoover Book Soiree—which if you haven’t attended one yet, you really should—Charlie Savage, New York Times national security reporter and author of the newly released book Power Wars: Inside Obama’s Post-9/11 Presidency, sat down with Lawfare’s Jack Goldsmith for a detailed discussion of the Obama administration’s national security legacy. The conversation, and so too the book, is chocked full of insider accounts of just about all of the most important Obama administration legal and policy decisions. We won't spoil the fun here, but Charlie walks Jack through how Abdulmutallab’s failed underwear bombing affected President Obama, and the two discuss exactly why a president who came into office critiquing Bush's national security policies ended up keeping so many of them. They even touch on whether he will actually shutter Guantanamo Bay.

It’s the Lawfare Podcast Episode #148: Charlie Savage on the Power Wars of the Obama Administration. 

You can read Jack's review of Power Wars, mentioned in the podcast, here. 

The third Hoover Book Soiree will be held on December 2nd, from 5:00-7:00 pm in Washington D.C. Ben Wittes will interview Edward Lucas of the Economist on his new book, Cyberphobia: Identity, Trust, Security, and the Internet. RSVP.

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Earlier this week, Lawfare’s Benjamin Wittes interviewed John Carlin at the Atlantic Council on National Security and the Cyber Threat Landscape. Carlin, the Assistant Attorney General for National Security, walks Ben through recent changes in his division of the Justice Department, the U.S. government’s ongoing efforts to deter and disrupt cyber threats, and how the shorter flash-to-bang timeline of modern day inspired terrorist attacks is affecting investigations and prosecutorial decisions. They even dive into the U.S.-China Cyber Deal. 

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Last week, George Washington University and the CIA co-hosted an event entitled Ethos and Profession of Intelligence. As part of the conference, Kenneth Wainstein moderated a conversation between CIA General Counsel Caroline Krass, Orin Kerr, and Benjamin Wittes on Bridging 20th Century Law and 21st Century Intelligence. What new legal questions are raised by rapidly evolving technologies and how do those questions interact with existing national security law? Can the United States strike a balance between privacy, security and the economic imperatives driving innovation?

The panel addresses these critical issues and more. 

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Perhaps you’ve heard, but tensions between the United States and Russia are heating up. With Putin upping the ante in Syria, Marvin Kalb, journalist, scholar, and a nonresident senior fellow in Foreign Policy at Brookings, came to Brookings to launch his new book that looks at the Russian leader’s last foray titled, Imperial Gamble: Putin, Ukraine, and the New Cold War. Putin’s recent actions in Crimea, eastern Ukraine and, more recently, in Syria have provoked a sharp deterioration in East-West relations. But is this the beginning of a new Cold War, or is Putin just wearing the costume of a prizefighter?

Joining the discussion were Thomas Friedman of the New York Times and Nina Khrushcheva, a professor at The New School. Brookings President Strobe Talbott provided introductory remarks while Martin Indyk, Executive Vice President of Brookings moderated the conversation.

It’s the Lawfare Podcast Episode #145: Putin’s Imperial Gamble

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Joby Warrick, author of Black Flags: The Rise of ISIS, and William McCants, author of The ISIS Apocalypse: The History, Strategy, and Doomsday Vision of the Islamic State, join Benjamin Wittes in the first Hoover Book Soiree. 

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Last week, the Center for Strategic and International Studies hosted Ben, along with Laura Donohue of Georgetown Law, former NSA Director General Michael Hayden, and Robin Simcox of the Henry Jackson Society, to discuss the future of surveillance reform in a post-Snowden world. What have we learned about NSA surveillance activities and its oversight mechanisms since June 2013? In what way should U.S. intelligence operations be informed by their potential impact on U.S. on economic interests? What privacy interests do non-Americans have in U.S. surveillance? And domestically, has the third-party doctrine outlived its applicability?

Tom Karako of CSIS moderated the panel. 

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As listeners may know, while we often talk about cybersecurity on the show, Brookings itself has been subject to a number of cyber-attacks in recent years. Those attacks have ranged  from infiltrations led by Chinese government-affiliated units to the more run-of-the-mill hacker intrusions targeting credit and financial information.

This week on the Lawfare Podcast, Helen Mohrmann, the Chief Information Officer at the Brookings Institution, discusses the difficulties of securing a large, public facing organization from a vast array of cyber-attacks. Helen walks Ben through the threat environment that an organization like Brookings faces (and how that is continuously changing) and she outlines some of the steps organizations and individuals can take to shore up their own security.

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This week, New York Times national security reporter Scott Shane came on the Lawfare Podcast to provide an overview of his new book on the life and death of radical Islamic cleric Anwar al Awlaki, Objective Troy: A Terrorist, A President, and the Rise of the Drone. Shane provides an overview of the book, examining the role played by al Awlaki in al Qaeda plots against the United States, his continued influence on the jihadi movement, and how his life and death was intimately tied to the rise of the drone in U.S. counterterrorism efforts. Why and how did al Awlaki transform from a leader in American Islamic thought into a recruiter for al Qaeda? And what lessons can the trajectory of his life teach us about countering violent extremism and the methods the United States uses to achieve its counterterrorism goals?

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On this week’s Lawfare Podcast, Gregory Johnsen outlines the state-of-play currently in Yemen. Johnsen, who is a writer-at-large for Buzzfeed News, a doctoral candidate at Princeton University, and an all-things-Yemen-expert, walks Ben through the byzantine power politics in Sanaa that led to the conflict now engulfing Yemen and he explains why the war shouldn’t be viewed as just another Sunni-Shia fight. Yet while he clarifies that the issues that sparked the war are much more local, he warns that the longer the conflict goes on, the more likely it is to expand. Johnsen also outlines the events that led to the Saudi intervention and just whether or not Yemen, which he says is really twelve separate countries now, can ever be put back together again.  

Johnsen is the author of The Last Refuge: Yemen, al Qaeda, and America’s War in Arabia. Follow him on Twitter for the latest updates on Yemen.  

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Last week, Ben attended a symposium at the Pentagon on the rise of so-called “hybrid conflicts,” whereprofessionals from around the national security establishment attempted to define the idea as well as its implications for existing legal structures and the law of war. In this week’s podcast, Brig. Gen. Richard Gross, the legal counsel to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, explains that the DOD’s senior leadership has increasingly begun discussing conflicts such as Ukraine, Syria, and the South China sea, in terms of hybrid conflict. He and Ben explore what lawyers should do with the idea, asking is it really new and should the law adjust to deal with it?

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On this week’s Lawfare Podcast, Ben sits down with Professor Gabriella Blum, professor at Harvard Law School, and Dustin Lewis, a senior researcher at Harvard Law Schools’ Program on International Law and Armed Conflict, to discuss their new report written with Naz Modirzadeh entitled Medical Care in Armed Conflict: IHL and State Responses to Terrorism. The conversation takes a look at whether we should consider medical care a form of illegitimate support to terrorists. Their argument? We shouldn't, because IHL lays down extensive protections for medical care, and those protections in many instances should also constrain domestic material support cases. Yet the authors make clear that in their view, there's also more to be done, as there are gaps and weaknesses in the protections afforded by IHL itself.   

Lawfare ran a summary of the report earlier this week, which you can read here. 

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