The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Sean Illing talks with former Republican strategist Tim Miller about his new book Why We Did It, which offers an inside look at Donald Trump's total capture of the Republican Party. Now a staff writer at The Bulwark, Miller shares detailed conversations he had with other party operators — who he criticizes as power- and fame-hungry enablers. He pulls back the curtain on a DC culture of identity and status, talks about the media's role in this transformation, and opens up honestly about the ways in which he and others like him are culpable.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Tim Miller (@Timodc), author; writer, The Bulwark

References: 

• Why We Did It: A Travelogue from the Republican Road to Hell by Tim Miller (Harper; 2022)
• "Unlocking the Conservative Closet" by Kerry Eleveld (The Advocate; Oct. 12, 2010)
• Losers: The Road to Everyplace but the White House by Michael Lewis (Vintage; 1998)
• "Elise Stefanik said she was one of the 'most bipartisan' members of Congress. Then she went all-in on Trump's false election claims" by Michael Kranish (Washington Post; May 12, 2021)
• "The Republican Triangle of Doom" by Sarah Longwell (The Bulwark; Sept. 27, 2021)
• "Breakfast with J.D. Vance, Anti-Trump Author Turned Pro-Trump Candidate" by Molly Ball (Time; July 7, 2021)
• "Social decay: what the conversation about Trump and the white working class misses" by Sean Illing (Vox; Nov. 1, 2016)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Vox’s Marin Cogan talks with Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg about her new book On Repentance And Repair, which is about how to make amends in the modern world. They talk about the difference between repentance and forgiveness, why making amends is so important, and how a "five step plan" for repairing harm drawn from the Jewish tradition can serve as a guide even for navigating repair in modern, complex issues. And, merely apologizing . . . is not enough.

Host: Marin Cogan (@marincogan), Senior Features Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg (@TheRaDR), rabbi; author; scholar-in-residence, National Council of Jewish Women

References: 

• On Repentance And Repair: Making Amends in an Unapologetic World by Danya Ruttenberg (Beacon Press; 2022)
• The Cost of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoeffer (1937)
• New Testament; Matthew 18:15–35
• "Most harassment apologies are just damage control. Dan Harmon's was a self-reckoning" by Caroline Framke (Vox; Jan. 12, 2018)
• The Mishneh Torah of Maimonides (c. 1170–1180 CE); the laws of teshuvah
• Sacred Spaces

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Sean Illing talks with Carrie Jenkins about her new book Sad Love, and her call to rethink the shape and boundaries of romantic love. In this far-ranging discussion about the meaning of romantic love, Sean and Carrie discuss the connection between love and happiness, what we should expect (and not expect) from our romantic partners, and whether or not loving a person must entail that we love only that person.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Carrie Jenkins (@carriejenkins), writer; professor of philosophy, University of British Columbia

References: 

• Sad Love: Romance and the Search for Meaning by Carrie Jenkins (Polity; 2022)
• "A philosopher makes the case for polyamory" by Sean Illing (Vox; Feb. 16, 2018)
• What Love Is: And What It Could Be by Carrie Jenkins (Basic; 2017)
• Nausea by Jean-Paul Sartre (1949)
• Nicomachean Ethics by Aristotle (see Book I, or Book X.6-8 for robust discussion of eudaimonia)
• Marina Adshade, economist
• Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl (1946; tr. Ilse Lasch)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Into It is a new podcast from Vulture and New York Magazine hosted by Sam Sanders. Each week, Sam and his Vulture colleagues break down the pop culture they can't stop thinking about and help us all obsess . . . better.

In this segment, Sam talks to New York Times columnist Tressie McMillan Cottom about the popular TV show Yellowstone and how it reflects our own identity politics.

New episodes of Into It drop every Thursday.

Listen on Apple Podcasts: apple.co/intoit

Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6YRlgok1wcnIqhrQgH1Tjt?si=46df5a54f7934e17

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Vox’s Emily St. James talks with the celebrated author and trans activist Julia Serano about her new book, Sexed Up. They talk about what "sexualization" really means, and why sexualizing behaviors are so pervasive and widespread throughout society. They also discuss why we're so prone to classify and categorize people, how patterns of what Julia calls "enforced ignorance" are communicated to children, and how we might build a society with a healthier sexual ethic — one that better protects marginalized people.

Host: Emily St. James (@emilyvdw), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Julia Serano (@JuliaSerano), writer, musician, activist

References: 

• Sexed Up: How Society Sexualizes Us, and How We Can Fight Back by Julia Serano (Seal Press; 2022)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Sean Illing talks with Nate Hilger, economist, data scientist, and author of the new book The Parent Trap: How to Stop Overloading Parents and Fix Our Inequality Crisis. The book explores what is expected of parents, and how a larger public investment in families and children beyond K-12 education could address inequality in America. Sean and Nate discuss parenting, the difference between caring and skill building, the pressure on parents to do it all, and the economic consequences that arise when they can’t. 

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Nate Hilger (@nate_g_hilger), economist and author

References: 

• The Parent Trap: How To Stop Overloading Parents and Fix Our Inequality Crisis by Nate Hilger (MIT Press; 2022)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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What good are piecemeal reparations? From Georgetown University, where school leadership once sold enslaved people, to Evanston, Illinois, where redlining kept Black residents out of homeownership, institutions and local governments are attempting to take reparations into their own hands. But do these small-scale efforts detract from the broader call for reparations from the federal government?

Fabiola talks with Indigenous philanthropist Edgar Villanueva, founder of the Decolonizing Wealth Project and creator of the Case for Reparations fund, about the reparatory justice efforts underway across the country and the role that individual donors might be able to play in reparations. Fabiola also speaks with activist Kavon Ward, who worked to restore Bruce’s Beach, waterfront land in California, to the descendants of Black families who were pushed off the land by eminent domain. (Ward’s work was funded by Villanueva’s organization.) They discuss how jurisdictions are repaying Black people for what was taken from them — and if that repayment can be considered reparations at all.

This series was made possible with support from the Canopy Collective and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. To provide feedback, please take our survey here: https://forms.gle/w9vYsfFGvdJLJ3LY9

Host: Fabiola Cineas, race and policy reporter, Vox

Guest: Kavon Ward, founder, Where Is My Land; Edgar Villanueva, founder, Decolonizing Wealth Project

References: 

Decolonizing Wealth, Second Edition: Indigenous Wisdom to Heal Divides and Restore Balance by Edgar Villanueva (Penguin Random House, 2021)

How a California beachfront property now worth millions was taken from its Black owners (CBS, May 2021)

Governor Newsom Signs SB 796, Authorizing the Return of Bruce’s Beach (California state Sen. Steven Bradford, September 2021)   

How Black activist Kavon Ward found her calling in the fight for Bruce’s Beach (Orange County Register)

272 Slaves Were Sold to Save Georgetown. What Does It Owe Their Descendants? (The New York Times, April 2016)

In Likely First, Chicago Suburb Of Evanston Approves Reparations For Black Residents (NPR, 2021)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Jonquilyn Hill 
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Why slavery? Marxist scholar Adolph Reed argues that Jim Crow — not enslavement — is the defining experience for Black Americans today. Reed recounts his childhood in the segregation-era South in his book The South: Jim Crow and Its Afterlives. Fabiola speaks with Reed about his experience, his argument that reparations aren’t necessarily a healing balm, and what policies and resources are needed to create a more equitable society.

This series was made possible with support from the Canopy Collective and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. To provide feedback, please take our survey here: https://forms.gle/w9vYsfFGvdJLJ3LY9

Host: Fabiola Cineas, race and policy reporter, Vox

Guest: Adolph L. Reed Jr., author of The South: Jim Crow and Its Afterlives

References: 

The South: Jim Crow and Its Afterlives by Adolph L. Reed Jr. (Verso, 2022)

The Marxist Who Antagonizes Liberals and Left (New Yorker)

Black Americans’ views of reparations for slavery (Pew Research)

Library Visit, Then Held at Gunpoint (New York Times, 2015)

The Racial Wealth Gap Is About the Upper Classes (People’s Policy Project, 2020)

Income Inequality and the Persistence of Racial Economic Disparities (Robert Manduca, 2018)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Jonquilyn Hill 
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Paying the price. One of the typical questions asked during conversations about reparations is how to pay for them. Fabiola talks with economist William “Sandy” Darity and folklorist Kirsten Mullen about how reparations could be executed. The husband-and-wife team lays out a comprehensive framework in their book, From Here to Equality: Reparations for Black Americans in the Twenty-First Century, for who would qualify and how the federal government would afford the $14 trillion price tag.

This is part of 40 Acres, a four-part series examining reparations in the United States.

This series was made possible by a grant from the Canopy Collective and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. To provide feedback, please take our survey here: https://forms.gle/w9vYsfFGvdJLJ3LY9

Host: Fabiola Cineas, race and policy reporter, Vox

Guests: William “Sandy” Darity and Kirsten Mullen, authors of From Here to Equality: Reparations for Black Americans in the Twenty-First Century

References: 

• From Here to Equality: Reparations for Black Americans in the Twenty-First Century by William A. Darity Jr. and A. Kirsten Mullen (The University of North Carolina Press; 2020)
• Homestead Act (1862)
• Disparities in Wealth by Race and Ethnicity in the 2019 Survey of Consumer Finances (Federal Reserve; 2020)
• Evanston is the first U.S. city to issue slavery reparations. Experts say it's a noble start. (NBC News; 2021)
• The Root of Haiti’s Misery: Reparations to Enslavers (New York Times; 2020)
• ‘We’re Self-Interested’: The Growing Identity Debate in Black America (New York Times; 2019)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Jonquilyn Hill 
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Fabiola Cineas talks with Nkechi Taifa, the founder and director of the Reparation Education Project, about the history of the fight for reparations in America. Though they came to the forefront during the 2020 election in the wake of George Floyd’s murder, activists have been fighting for repayment for slavery since the practice was abolished. This is part of 40 Acres, a four-part series examining reparations in the United States.

This series was made possible by a grant from the Canopy Collective and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. To provide feedback, please take our survey here: https://forms.gle/w9vYsfFGvdJLJ3LY9

Host: Fabiola Cineas, race and policy reporter, Vox

Guest: Nkechi Taifa, founder and director of the Reparation Education Project

References: 

• WMUR, 2019: Joe Biden discusses China-US trade talks, gun violence
• The N'COBRA movement and HR 40
• Henry Louis Gates, Jr.: The Truth Behind “40 Acres and a Mule”
• Summer of Change: The Civil Rights Story of Glen Echo Park
• Los Angeles Times, 1995: Inspired by Marcus Garvey, Audley Moore has struggled to lift up African Americans
• The Republic of New Africa
• The Atlantic: Martin Luther King Makes the Case for Reparations
• HR 442 — Civil Liberties Act of 1987
• HR 40 — Commission to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African Americans Act
• Pew Research Center: Black Americans Have a Clear Vision for Reducing Racism but Little Hope It Will Happen
• Gallup polling on American attitudes and race
• Belinda Sutton and Her Petitions
• No Pensions for Ex-Slaves: How Federal Agencies Suppressed Movement To Aid Freedpeople
• Wall Street Journal, 2019: "Reparations Ray" Blazed Lonely Trail
• Associated Press, 2019: New Orleans mayor to apologize for 1891 lynching of 11 Italian Americans
• NPR, 2009: Senate Apologizes For Slavery
• ABC News: Advocates call on Biden to act on reparations study by Juneteenth
• NPR, 2006: COINTELPRO and the History of Domestic Spying
• Washington Post, 2000: In Aetna's Past: Slave Owner Policies
• New York Times, 2016: Insurance Policies on Slaves: New York Life's Complicated Past

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Jonquilyn Hill 
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Sean Illing talks with Corey Robin, author of a recent article — as well as a 2019 book — about the life and thought of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Robin discusses how Thomas, whose concurring opinion in the case that overturned Roe v. Wade garnered recent attention, developed the ideological basis of his extremist judicial philosophy, how his views went from the hard-right fringe to more mainstream over the course of his thirty years on the Supreme Court, and how the failures of the 1960's movements shaped his fundamental pessimism about racial progress in America.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Corey Robin (@CoreyRobin), author; professor of political science, Brooklyn College and CUNY Graduate Center

References: 

• The Enigma of Clarence Thomas by Corey Robin (Metropolitan; 2019)
• "The Self-Fulfilling Prophecies of Clarence Thomas" by Corey Robin (New Yorker; July 9)
• Clarence Thomas's opening statement, Anita Hill hearing (C-SPAN; Oct. 11, 1991)
• Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison (1952)
• Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization (2022); Thomas's concurrence
• American Negro Slave Revolts by Herbert Aptheker (1943)
• Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution - 1863–1877 by Eric Foner (1988; updated 2014)
• The Culture of Narcissism: American Life in An Age of Diminishing Expectations by Christopher Lasch (Norton; 1979)
• The Rhetoric of Reaction by Albert O. Hirschman (Harvard; 1991)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Every Thursday in August, you'll hear Even Better on Vox Conversations, a special series focused on helping people live better lives individually and collectively.

In the fourth and final episode, host Julia Furlan talks with financial planner Paco de Leon, author and illustrator of Finance for the People, an accessible, real-talk guide to taking control of your finances. They discuss why it can be emotional to talk about money, the difficult historical realities of financial planning usually avoided by most financial advice-givers, and some real, practical steps for how to face your financial fears and take control of your money — right now.

Host: Julia Furlan (@juliastmi)

Guest: Paco de Leon, author; illustrator; founder, The Hell Yeah Group

References: 

• Finance for the People: Getting a Grip on Your Finances (Penguin Life; 2022)

Even Better is here to offer deeply sourced, actionable advice for helping you live a better life. Follow Even Better at vox.com/even-better.

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Sean Illing talks with Skye Cleary, philosopher and author of the new book How to Be Authentic. The book is an examination of how to live an authentic life through the lens of the life and thought of the great French philosopher Simone de Beauvoir (1908–1986). Sean and Skye discuss what authenticity really means — and how it's often a misused term today, why we should resist performing roles predetermined for us by society, and how to have a truly intimate relationship without surrendering yourself — or your freedom.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Skye Cleary (@Skye_Cleary), author, philosopher

References: 

• How to Be Authentic: Simone de Beauvoir and the Quest for Fulfillment by Skye Cleary (St. Martin's; 2022)
• "Existentialism Is a Humanism" by Jean-Paul Sartre (1946)
• The Second Sex by Simone de Beauvoir (1949; tr. 2011 by Constance Borde & Sheila Malovany-Chevallier)
• Aristophanes's speech in Plato's Symposium, 189c–193e
• The Useless Mouths, play by Simone de Beauvoir (1945)
• Inseparable by Simone de Beauvoir (tr. Sandra Smith; published for the first time by Ecco; 2021)
• "Before She Loved Sartre, Simone de Beauvoir loved Zaza" by Leslie Camhi (New York Times; Aug. 27, 2021)
• After The Second Sex: Conversations with Simone de Beauvoir by Alice Schwarzer (Pantheon; 1984)
• Memoirs of a Dutiful Daughter by Simone de Beauvoir (1958)
• Pyrrhus et Cinéas by Simone de Beauvoir (1944)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Every Thursday in August, you'll hear Even Better on Vox Conversations, a special series focused on helping people live better lives individually and collectively.

In the third episode, host Julia Furlan talks with Nedra Glover Tawwab, licensed therapist, relationship expert, and author of the NYT best-seller Set Boundaries, Find Peace. Nedra's focus is on the importance of setting boundaries in your relationships, and she talks about many strategies for doing this that are much more nuanced than simply saying "no" or cutting ties. Julia and Nedra talk about how to get over the fear of disappointing people, the ethics of "ghosting" someone, and how even small changes in our patterns of behavior can lead to better, more fulfilling relationships.

Host: Julia Furlan (@juliastmi)

Guest: Nedra Glover Tawwab (@NedraTawwab), therapist; author

References: 

• Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself by Nedra Glover Tawwab (TarcherPerigee; 2021)

Even Better is here to offer deeply sourced, actionable advice for helping you live a better life. Follow Even Better at vox.com/even-better.

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Sean Illing talks with former Google data scientist Seth Stephens-Davidowitz, author of Don't Trust Your Gut. Seth argues that the way we make decisions is wrong, outdated, and based on methods or conventional wisdom that lead us astray from getting what we want. Sean and Seth discuss the idea of using data in place of our own intuition and reason to help us through things like online dating, picking a place to live, and being a better parent. Plus, how can we trust "experience sampling" studies that rely on self-reporting, when — after all — everybody lies?

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Seth Stephens-Davidowitz (@SethS_D), author

References: 

• Don't Trust Your Gut: Using Data to Get What You Really Want in Life by Seth Stephens-Davidowitz (Dey Street; 2022)
• Everybody Lies: Big Data, New Data, and What the Internet Can Tell Us About Who We Really Are by Seth Stephens-Davidowitz (Dey Street; 2018)
• Moneyball (dir. Bennett Miller, 2011); based on the book Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton; 2004)
• "Capitalists in the Twenty-First Century" by Matthew Smith et al. (Quarterly Journal of Economics v. 134 (4); 2019)
• The Mappiness Project, created by George MacKerron and Susanna Mourato
• "Machine learning uncovers the most robust self-report predictors of relationship quality across 43 longitudinal couples studies" by Samantha Joel et al. (PNAS v. 117 (32); 2020)
• "Are You Happy While You Work?" by Alex Bryson and George MacKerron (The Economic Journal v. 127 (599); Feb. 2017)
• "Experienced well-being rises with income, even above $75,000 per year" by Matthew Killingsworth (PNAS v. 118 (4); 2021)
• "The Amount and Source of Millionaires' Wealth (Moderately) Predicts Their Happiness" by Grand Edward Donnelly et al. (Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin v. 44 (5); May 2018)
• “When Choice Is Demotivating: Can One Desire Too Much of a Good Thing?” by Sheena S. Iyengar and Mark R. Lepper (J. of Personality and Social Psychology, 79(6); 2000)
• "The Effects of Exposure to Better Neighborhoods on Children: New EvidenceFfrom the Moving to Opportunity Project" by Raj Chetty et al. (American Economic Review v. 106 (4); 2016)
• "Education Doesn't Work" by Freddie deBoer (Substack; Apr. 12, 2021)
• "Predicting political elections from rapid and unreflective face judgments" by Charles C. Ballew and Alexander Todorov (PNAS v. 104 (46); 2007)
• Dataclysm: Love, Sex, Race, and Identity — What Our Online Lives Tell Us About Our Offline Selves by Christian Rudder (Crown; 2015)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Every Thursday in August, you'll hear Even Better on Vox Conversations, a special series focused on helping people live better lives individually and collectively.

In the second episode, host Julia Furlan talks with author and CEO Minda Harts about how to fight for equality in the workplace. Harts’s work has focused on empowering people, particularly women of color, to find their voice and secure a seat at the table. Julia and Minda discuss the failures of "Lean In" to meaningfully address these issues, how to overcome common workplace obstacles and stereotypes, and how to achieve success through enrolling your coworkers and colleagues in the project of creating a truly equitable and respectful workplace.

Host: Julia Furlan (@juliastmi)

Guest: Minda Harts (@MindaHarts), author; founder and CEO of The Memo

References: 

• You Are More Than Magic: The Black and Brown Girls' Guide to Finding Your Voice by Minda Harts 
• The Memo: What Women of Color Need to Know to Secure a Seat at the Table by Minda Harts
• Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead by Sheryl Sandberg
•  

Even Better is here to offer deeply sourced, actionable advice for helping you live a better life. Follow Even Better at vox.com/even-better.

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This episode was made by: 

Producer: Erikk Geannikis

Editor: Amy Drozdowska

Engineer: Patrick Boyd

Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with Stuart Jeffries, journalist and author of Everything, All the Time, Everywhere, about why postmodernism is so hard to define, and why — as Jeffries argues — it's still a very active presence in our culture and politics today. They discuss whether our desire should be understood as subversive or as a tool of capitalism, how postmodernism is inextricably linked with neoliberalism, and how to navigate our current culture of ubiquitous consumption and entertainment. What should we watch on TV: Boris Johnson's resignation speech, or the reality show Love Is Blind?

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Stuart Jeffries, author; feature writer, The Guardian

References: 

• Everything, All the Time, Everywhere: How We Became Postmodern by Stuart Jeffries (Verso; 2021)
• "The post-truth prophets" by Sean Illing (Vox; Nov. 16, 2019)
• The Postmodern Condition by Jean-François Lyotard (Univ. of Minnesota Press; 1979, tr. 1984)
• Simulacra and Simulation by Jean Baudrillard (Univ. of Michigan Press; 1981, tr. 1983)
• Postmodernism: Style and Subversion, 1970–1990 (exhibition catalog, Victoria and Albert Museum, London, UK; Sept. 24, 2011 – Jan. 15, 2012)
• "Postmodernism: from the cutting edge to the museum" by Hari Kunzru (The Guardian; Sept. 15, 2011)
• "You're sayin' a foot massage don't mean nothin', and I'm sayin' it does" by James Wood (Guardian Supplement; Nov. 19, 1994)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Every Thursday in August, you'll hear Even Better on Vox Conversations, a special series focused on helping people live better lives individually and collectively.

In this first episode, host Julia Furlan talks with activist, writer, and organizer Brea Baker. Brea's career has included student activism at Yale University, national organizing for the Women's March, and continues today through action-oriented work on behalf of progressive causes. Brea talks about how her work is informed by radical love, how she confronts obstacles in the movement on both personal and organizational scales, and how we can push back against despair and dread, and come into our power — no matter where we're at.

Host: Julia Furlan (@juliastmi)

Guests: Brea Baker (@Brea_Baker), activist; writer; Chief Equity Officer, Inspire Justice

References: 

• "bell hooks Taught Us To Both Practice and Preach Radical Love" by Brea Baker (Elle; Dec. 20, 2021)
• The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness by Michelle Alexander (New Press; 2010)
• "Yale Announces a New Center for Race Studies. A Yale Senior Asks, Now What?" by Brea Baker (Elle; Feb. 23, 2016)
• "Why I Became an Abolitionist" by Brea Baker (Harper's Bazaar; Dec. 10, 2020)
• We Do This 'Til We Free Us: Abolitionist Organizing and Transforming Justice by Mariame Kaba (Haymarket; 2021)

Even Better is here to offer deeply sourced, actionable advice for helping you live a better life. Follow Even Better at vox.com/even-better.

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with Harvard Law professor Nikolas Bowie about the U.S. Supreme Court's recently-concluded term, which produced landmark opinions restricting the power of the EPA, expanding gun rights, and overturning Roe v. Wade. They discuss how the conservative court's arguments are structured and why they are in fact quite radical, what "legal liberalism" is and whether it has just been decisively repudiated, and whether there are any reforms that could stop the conservative majority from reshaping American jurisprudence.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Nikolas Bowie (@nikobowie), Louis D. Brandeis Professor of Law, Harvard Law School

References: 

• Presidential Commission on the Supreme Court, Public Meeting, Panel 1 (C-SPAN; June 30)
• "How the Supreme Court dominates our democracy" by Niko Bowie (Washington Post; July 16, 2021)
• A Twitter thread on the repudiation of legal liberalism, by @nikobowie
• Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health (SCOTUS; June 24)
• 42 U.S. Code §1983 - Civil action for deprivation of rights
• 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (1868)
• New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Inc. v. Bruen (SCOTUS; June 23)
• Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey (SCOTUS; June 29, 1992)
• Private Government: How Employers Rule Our Lives (and Why We Don't Talk about It) by Elizabeth Anderson (Princeton; 2017)
• "A new Supreme Court case is the biggest threat to US democracy since January 6" by Ian Millhiser (Vox; June 30)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Vox's Emily Stewart talks with Kathryn Judge, professor at Columbia Law School and author of the new book Direct: The Rise of Middleman Economy and the Power of Going to the Source. They discuss how middlemen — which include real estate agents, stock brokers, but also Amazon and Walmart — came to assume such an outsized role in our economy, the pros and cons of middlemen in different market contexts, why Prof. Judge sees a fundamental difference between Etsy and Amazon, and how we consumers can change how we decide what to buy in order to help push the economy in a radically different direction.

Host: Emily Stewart (@EmilyStewartM), senior correspondent, Vox

Guests: Kathryn Judge (@ProfKateJudge), Harvey J. Goldschmid Professor of Law, Columbia University; author

References: 

• Direct: The Rise of the Middleman Economy and the Power of Going to the Source by Kathryn Judge (Harper Business; 2022)
• "So Much for Cutting Out the Middleman" by Kathryn Judge (The Atlantic; June 9)
• "What Is Web3?" by Thomas Stackpole (Harvard Business Review; May 10)
• "The awful American consumer" by Emily Stewart (Vox; Apr. 7)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with Washington Post media columnist Margaret Sullivan about his new book The Paradox of Democracy, which he co-authored with media studies professor Zac Gershberg. Sean and Margaret discuss the relationship between free expression and democratic society, talk about whether or not the January 6th hearings are doing anything at all politically, and discuss some potential ways to bolster democratic values in the media ecology of the present.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Margaret Sullivan (@Sulliview), media columnist, Washington Post

References: 

• The Paradox of Democracy: Free Speech, Open Media, and Perilous Persuasion by Zac Gershberg and Sean Illing (Chicago; 2022)
• Ghosting the News: Local Journalism and the Crisis of American Democracy by Margaret Sullivan (Columbia Global Reports; 2020)
• "Four reasons the Jan. 6 hearings have conquered the news cycle" by Margaret Sullivan (Washington Post; July 22)
• Understanding Media by Marshall McLuhan (1964)
• Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman (1985)
• Newsroom Confidential: Lessons (and Worries) from an Ink-Stained Life by Margaret Sullivan (St. Martin's; Oct. 2022)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Vox's Benji Jones talks with marine biologist Hanna Koch about her team's efforts to repopulate the planet's coral reefs through cutting-edge scientific intervention. They discuss what makes coral so unique as organisms, how scientists understand their reproductive behavior, and how they are working to respawn corals and repopulate reefs. Hanna explains why this work is so imperative — not just for the diverse array of marine life that coral reefs are home to, but for the sustainability of human communities, as well.

Host: Benji Jones (@BenjiSJones), Environmental reporter, Vox

Guest: Hanna Koch (@DrHannaRKoch1), Marine biologist; postdoctoral research fellow, Coral Reef Restoration Program, Mote Marine Laboratory

References: 

• "How to resurrect a coral reef" by Benji Jones (Vox; Apr. 22)
• "Restored Corals Spawn Hope for Reefs Worldwide" by Hanna R. Koch, Erinn Muller, & Michael P. Crosby (The Scientist; Feb. 1, 2021)
• "Herbivorous Crabs Reverse the Seaweed Dilemma on Coral Reefs" by A. Jason Spadaro & Mark Butler (Current Biology 31 (4); Feb. 22, 2021)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with professor Michael Slepian, author of The Secret Life of Secrets. This new book explores secret-keeping behavior and its consequences, as well as how secrecy relates to trust. Sean and Michael talk about what things we keep secret, why we're so worried about keeping them secret, and the toll that secret-keeping can have on us. They also talk about how the issue of secrecy relates to authenticity, and our fears of being judged by others.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Michael Slepian (@michaelslepian), author; professor, Columbia Business School

References: 

• The Secret Life of Secrets: How Our Inner Worlds Shape Well-Being, Relationships, and Who We Are by Michael Slepian (Crown; 2022)
• "Why the Secrets You Keep Are Hurting You" by Michael Slepian (Scientific American; Feb. 5, 2019)
• "Spill the Beans" by Olga Khazan (The Atlantic; July 8, 2015)
• "Keeping Secrets Isn't So Bad for You After All — With One Exception" by Olivia Campbell (New York; May 3, 2017)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Vox's Alissa Wilkinson talks with Wall Street Journal reporter Erich Schwartzel about Red Carpet, his new book detailing the myriad ways that Hollywood movies are affected by China. They discuss how Chinese markets are essential for the budgetary math of big blockbusters, the role of the Chinese Communist Party's censors play in shaping the content of American films, and what this complicated global relationship might for Hollywood's future — and the future of movies in general.

Host: Alissa Wilkinson (@alissamarie), film critic and senior culture reporter, Vox

Guests: Erich Schwartzel (@erichschwartzel), reporter, The Wall Street Journal; author

References: 

• Red Carpet: Hollywood, China, and the Global Battle for Cultural Supremacy by Erich Schwartzel (Penguin; 2022)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with Jennifer Senior, the Pulitzer-winning staff writer at the Atlantic, about her recent piece on Steve Bannon called "American Rasputin." Through incredible firsthand access and detailed reporting, Senior shows how Bannon is still an effective media manipulator through his popular "War Room" podcast. Sean and Jennifer discuss what Bannon's true political beliefs might be, the role he played in plotting the January 6th attack on the Capitol, and the role he might already be playing in setting up the next insurrection.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Jennifer Senior (@JenSeniorNY), staff writer, The Atlantic

References: 

• "American Rasputin" by Jennifer Senior (June 6; The Atlantic)
• UPDATE: "Bannon, Facing Jail and Fines, Agrees to Testify to Jan. 6 Panel" by Luke Broadwater and Maggie Haberman (July 10; New York Times)
• "Steve Bannon's 'We Build the Wall' Codefendants Plead Guilty" by Bob Van Voris (Apr. 21; Bloomberg)
• "Steve Bannon and U.S. ultra-conservatives take aim at Pope Francis" by Richard Engel and Kennett Werner (Apr. 12, 2019; NBC News)
• "'Flood the zone with shit': How misinformation overwhelmed our democracy" by Sean Illing (updated Feb. 6, 2020; Vox)
• The Paradox of Democracy: Free Speech, Open Media, and Perilous Persuasion by Zac Gershberg and Sean Illing (2022; U. Chicago)
• American Dharma, dir. by Errol Morris (2019)
• The Fourth Turning: What the Cycles of History Tell Us About America's Next Rendezvous with Destiny by William Strauss and Neil Howe (Crown; 1997)
• "The work" of George Ivanovich Gurdjieff (d. 1949)
• "What I Learned Binge-Watching Steve Bannon's Documentaries" by Adam Wren (Politico; Dec. 2016)
• "McLuhan would blow hot and cool about today's internet" by Nick Carr (Nov. 1, 2007; The Guardian)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Vox's Constance Grady talks with writer Jonathan Lethem about his 2003 work The Fortress of Solitude in this recording from a live Vox Book Club event. They discuss the prescient and still-relevant themes of the novel — like the issues of appropriation in art, gentrification, and superheroes, how Lethem approaches "realism" in his writing, and the role of music and comics in both his own life and the lives of his characters.

Vox Conversations will be on summer break the week of July 4th, and will return on Monday, July 11th.

Host: Constance Grady (@constancegrady), staff writer, Vox

Guests: Jonathan Lethem, author

References: 

• The Fortress of Solitude by Jonathan Lethem (Vintage; 2003)
• "The Fortress of Solitude is a fraught and uneasy love letter to a vanished Brooklyn" by Constance Grady (Vox; May 20)
• "The Author Looks Inward: A Conversation with Jonathan Lethem" by Brian Gresko (LARB; Sept. 8, 2013)
• Another Country by James Baldwin (1962)
• Buddenbrooks by Thomas Mann (1901)
• Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison (1977)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with author Ryan Holiday about Stoicism — a philosophy with roots in ancient Greece and which flourished in early imperial Rome — and how it can help us live fulfilling lives today. In addition to explaining what Stoicism is and how we can practice it, Holiday addresses the critical idea that Stoicism is a philosophy for elites, unpacks some of the parallels between Stoicism and Buddhism, and explains how being in touch with our mortality can relieve some of our modern anxieties.

This is the fourth episode of The Philosophers, a monthly series from Vox Conversations. Each episode will focus on a philosophical figure or school of thought from the past, and discuss how their ideas can help us make sense of our modern world and lives today. Check out the other episodes in this series, on Albert Camus, Hannah Arendt, and pragmatism with Cornel West.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews writer, Vox

Guest: Ryan Holiday (@RyanHoliday), author; creator of Daily Stoic

References to works by Stoics: 

• Zeno of Citium (c. 334 – c. 262 BC) (about whom much is known from Diogenes Laërtius, c. 3rd c. AD, in Lives and Opinions of Eminent Philosophers, VII)
• Epictetus (c. 50 – c. 125 AD): The Encheiridion (or Handbook) of Epictetus; The Discourses of Epictetus
• Seneca (c. 4 BC – 65 AD): Dialogues and letters
• Marcus Aurelius (121 – 180 AD): Meditations (Penguin Classics ; MIT Internet Classics Archive)

Other references: 

• The Daily Stoic podcast with Ryan Holiday
• Lives of the Stoics: The Art of Living from Zeno to Marcus Aurelius by Ryan Holiday and Stephen Hanselman (Portfolio; 2020)
• Courage Is Calling by Ryan Holiday (Portfolio; 2021)
• Courage Under Fire: Testing Epictetus's Doctrines in a Laboratory of Human Behavior by James B. Stockdale (Hoover Institution Press; 1993)
• "Self-pity" by D.H. Lawrence
• The Stoic Life: Emotions, Duties, and Fate by Tad Brennan (Oxford; 2005)
• How to Be a Stoic by Massimo Pigliucci (Basic; 2017)
• Stoic Wisdom: Ancient Lessons for Modern Resilience by Nancy Sherman (Oxford; 2021)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Vox’s Alex Abad-Santos sits down with Patrick Somerville, the creator and showrunner of HBO's critically-acclaimed series Station Eleven, adapted from the novel by Emily St. John Mandel. They talk about the weirdness of making a show about a pandemic during a pandemic, what it was like to craft the show's intricate web of storylines, and why Patrick's body of work — which also includes Maniac, Made for Love, and co-writing The Leftovers — tends toward the dystopian. There's also a reflective discussion about . . . hugs.

Host: Alex Abad-Santos (@alex_abads), Senior Culture Reporter, Vox

Guest: Patrick Somerville (@patrickerville), creator and showrunner, Station Eleven

References: 

• Station Eleven, created for television by Patrick Somerville (HBO Max; 2021)
• Station Eleven, novel by Emily St. John Mandel (Knopf; 2014)
• "A syllabus for a new world" by Alissa Wilkinson (Vox; Jan. 13)
• "In Station Eleven, the end of the world is a vibrant, lush green" by Emily St. James (Vox; Jan. 10)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Vox’s Anna North talks with Da'Shaun Harrison, the activist, author, and 2022 Lambda Literary Award recipient for their book Belly of the Beast: The Politics of Anti-Fatness as Anti-Blackness. Da'Shaun explains the ways in which society's anti-fatness is structural, and connected —historically and politically — to the structures of anti-Blackness that took root alongside slavery in America. Anna and Da'Shaun discuss common misunderstandings and myths about fatness, how these pathologies insidiously infiltrate the criminal justice system, and why Da'Shaun envisions a liberatory future in the idea of destruction.

Host: Anna North (@annanorthtweets), Senior Reporter, Vox

Guest: Da'Shaun Harrison (@DaShaunLH), author; editor-at-large, Scalawag

References: 

• Belly of the Beast: The Politics of Anti-Fatness as Anti-Blackness by Da'Shaun Harrison (North Atlantic; 2021)
• "The past, present, and future of body image in America" by Anna North (Vox; Oct. 18, 2021)
• "The paradox of online 'body positivity'" by Rebecca Jennings (Vox; Jan. 13, 2021)
• Fearing the Black Body by Sabrina Strings (NYU; 2019)
• "CDC Study Overstated Obesity as a Cause of Death" by Betsy McKay (Wall Street Journal; Nov. 23, 2004)
• "Correction: Actual Causes of Death in the United States, 2000" (JAMA; Jan. 19, 2005)
• Killer Fat: Media, Medicine, and Morals in the American "Obesity Epidemic" by Natalie Boero (Rutgers; 2012)
• "The Bizarre and Racist History of the BMI" by Aubrey Gordon (Oct. 15, 2019)
• "Mama's Baby, Papa's Maybe: An American Grammar Book" by Hortense J. Spillers (Diacritics, 17 (2); 1987)
• Joy James: Captive Maternals

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with historian and author Timothy Snyder about the war in Ukraine, the stakes for Europe and the rest of the world, and the battle between Putin's autocracy and democracy being waged. They also discuss the enduring importance of history — and of ideas — in shaping events in our world.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Timothy Snyder (@TimothyDSnyder), author; Levin professor of history, Yale University

References: 

• "The War in Ukraine Has Unleashed a New Word" by Timothy Snyder (New York Times Magazine; Apr. 22)
• On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century by Timothy Snyder (Crown; 2017)
• The Road to Unfreedom: Russia, Europe, America by Timothy Snyder (Tim Duggan; 2018)
• Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin by Timothy Snyder (Basic; 2010)
• "Vladimir Putin's politics of eternity" by Timothy Snyder (The Guardian; Mar. 16, 2018)
• Black Rights/White Wrongs: The Critique of Racial Liberalism by Charles W. Mills (Oxford; 2017)
• "Who is Putin really fighting? Maxim Trudolyubov on the Russian president's ruthless war of generations" (Meduza; June 6)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Vox’s Emily St. James talks with Chase Strangio of the ACLU about the assault on the rights of trans Americans taking place in many states across the country. They explain why laws that recently passed through state houses in Florida, Texas, and Alabama imperil trans people — or, in some cases, even criminalize their very existence. Chase and Emily discuss the ongoing legal battles to challenge these laws, the political and social obstacles facing the trans community, and how all Americans can help protect trans people through challenging some fundamental assumptions in our culture.

Host: Emily St. James (@emilyvdw), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Chase Strangio (@chasestrangio), Deputy Director for Transgender Justice, ACLU

References: 

• "The time to panic about anti-trans legislation is now" by Emily St. James (Vox; March 24)
• "Florida's law limiting LGBTQ discussion in schools, explained" by Amber Phillips (Washington Post; April 22)
• "Alabama law criminalizing care for transgender youth faces federal test" by Kimberly Chandler (AP; May 5)
• "Explaining the Latest Texas Anti-Transgender Directive" by Alene Bouranova (BU Today; March 3)
• Obergefell v. Hodges (U.S. Supreme Court; 2015)
• Bostock v. Clayton County (U.S. Supreme Court; 2020)
• "The Courts Won't Free Us — Only We Can" by Chase Strangio (Them; June 1)
• "Rising Model Hunter Schafer Is Fighting for the Future of Trans Individuals On and Off the Runway" by Katherine Cusumano (W Magazine; March 21, 2018)
• "HB 500 — Barring Transgender Girls in Sports" (ACLU Idaho; 2020)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with comedian and author Michael Ian Black about his book A Better Man, in which Black writes a letter to his son about masculinity, vulnerability, and the importance of empathy, among other things. They open the conversation discussing the tragic mass murder that took place at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas. Black was inspired to write this book in the wake of the 2018 school shooting in Parkland, Florida, and America's mass shootings are a subject throughout his book. Sean and Michael talk about how to confront these events as fathers of boys, the myth of what it means to be a "real man," and the elusive importance of deep, male friendship.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Michael Ian Black (@michaelianblack), comedian; author

References: 

• A Better Man: A (Mostly Serious) Letter to My Son by Michael Ian Black (Workman; 2020 - paperback, 2022)
• "America's troubled relationship with paid time off for dads" by Aimee Picchi (CBS News; Oct. 19, 2021)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Vox's Constance Grady talks with writer Carmen Maria Machado, whose 2017 short story collection Her Body and Other Parties was a National Book Award finalist. In this episode, which is a recording of a live Vox Book Club event, they discuss how this haunting genre-straddling collection conveys the underlying horrors of being an embodied woman, how the nation's shifting cultural mores around sexual violence are reflected in Law & Order: SVU, and how Machado's writing expresses what she just might start calling the "femme uncanny."

Host: Constance Grady (@constancegrady), staff writer, Vox

Guests: Carmen Maria Machado, author

References: 

• Her Body and Other Parties by Carmen Maria Machado (Graywolf; 2017)
• Stories of Your Life and Others by Ted Chiang (2002)
• Kelly Link
• "The Green Ribbon" by Alvin Schwartz, from In a Dark, Dark Room and Other Scary Stories (1984)
• "'Law & Order' is lost without Stabler and Benson. Here's why their pairing works," by Carmen Maria Machado (LA Times; Apr. 8, 2021)
• "The Trash Heap Has Spoken" by Carmen Maria Machado (Guernica; Feb. 13, 2017)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Jamil Smith talks with Erin Thompson, professor of art crime and author of Smashing Statues: The Rise and Fall of America's Public Monuments. They discuss why we honor horrible people from the past in metal and stone, what effects these objects have on our present, and what's keeping so many of these monuments in place throughout America.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Erin Thompson (@artcrimeprof), author; associate professor of art crime, John Jay College of Criminal Justice

References: 

• Smashing Statues: The Rise and Fall of America's Public Monuments by Erin Thompson (Norton; 2022)
• A viral tweet (June 10, 2020)
• "What's the point of beheading a statue?" by Erin Thompson (Art News; June 22, 2020)
• "The Historian Scrutinizing Our Idea of Monuments" by Alexandra Schwartz (New Yorker; March 3)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with Cornel West about the American philosophical tradition known as pragmatism. They talk about what makes pragmatism so distinctly American, how pragmatists understand the connection between knowledge and action, and how the pragmatist mindset can invigorate our understanding of democratic life and communal action today. Cornel West also talks about the ways in which pragmatism has influenced his work and life, alongside the blues, Chekhov, and his Christian faith.

This is the third episode of The Philosophers, a new monthly series from Vox Conversations. Each episode will focus on a philosophical figure or school of thought from the past, and discuss how their ideas can help us make sense of our modern world and lives today.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews writer, Vox

Guest: Cornel West (@CornelWest), author; Dietrich Bonhoeffer professor of philosophy & Christian practice, Union Theological Seminary

References to works by American pragmatists: 

• Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803–1882): "Self-Reliance" (1841)
• William James (1842–1910): Pragmatism: A New Name for Some Old Ways of Thinking (1907); The Varieties of Religious Experience (1902); "Is Life Worth Living?" (1895)
• Charles Sanders Peirce (1839–1914): "The Fixation of Belief" (1877)
• John Dewey (1859–1952): The Quest for Certainty (1929); "Emerson—The Philosopher of Democracy" (1903); The Public and Its Problems (1927)
• Richard Rorty (1931–2007): "Pragmatism, Relativism, and Irrationalism" (1979); "Solidarity or Objectivity?" (1989)

Other references: 

• Cornel West Teaches Philosophy (MasterClass)
• The American Evasion of Philosophy: A Genealogy of Pragmatism by Cornel West (Univ. of Wisconsin Press; 1989)
• The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald (1925)
• Plato, Republic (refs. in particular to Book 1 and Book 8)
• The Phantom Public by Walter Lippmann (1925)
• Leopardi: Selected Poems of Giacomo Leopardi (1798–1837), tr. by Eamon Grennan (Princeton; 1997)
• "The Myth of Sisyphus" by Albert Camus (1942; tr. 1955)
• Democracy & Tradition by Jeffrey Stout (Princeton; 2003)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Vox’s Marin Cogan talks with author and journalist Jessie Singer, whose book There Are No Accidents asks us to completely rethink our understanding of accidents as seemingly random, blameless, harm-inducing events. Marin and Jessie discuss what drug overdoses, car crashes, and apartment building fires have in common, the systemic structural vulnerabilities that lead to accidents, and how we can press for greater accountability.

Host: Marin Cogan (@marincogan), Senior Features Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Jessie Singer (@JessieSingerNYC), author; journalist

References: 

• There Are No Accidents: The Deadly Rise of Injury and Disaster—Who Profits and Who Pays the Price by Jessie Singer (Simon & Schuster; 2022)
• "Stop calling them 'accidents'" by Marin Cogan (Vox; Apr. 12)
• "Nearly 43,000 people died on US roads last year, agency says" by Tom Krisher and Hope Yen (AP News; May 17)
• "NYC building space heater malfunction sparks fire that kills 19, including 9 children" by Maria Caspani (Reuters; Jan. 10)
• "Remembering Eric Ng" by Maura Roosevelt (The Nation; Feb. 7, 2014)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with political scientist and author Francis Fukuyama, whose ideas about the "end of history" and the ideological supremacy of liberal democracy became well-known through his 1989 essay "The End of History?". They discuss Fukuyama's new book, Liberalism and Its Discontents, as well as some of the modern challenges facing liberalism today, what Fukuyama thinks of the radically redistributive politics of the Bernie Sanders campaign, and whether he thinks it's still the case that liberal democracy stands victorious in the war of ideas.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Francis Fukuyama (@FukuyamaFrancis), author; professor, Stanford University

References: 

• Liberalism and Its Discontents by Francis Fukuyama (FSG; 2022)
• "The End of History?" by Francis Fukuyama (The National Interest, v. 16; Summer 1989)
• The End of History and the Last Man by Francis Fukuyama (Free Press; 1992)
• "Francis Fukuyama Predicted the End of History. It's Back (Again)," by Jennifer Schuessler (New York Times; May 10)

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• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Vox's Fabiola Cineas talks with Anita Hill, whose testimony during the 1991 confirmation hearings for now-Justice Clarence Thomas highlighted the prominence of sexual harassment and unwanted sexual advances in the workplace. Hill discusses how those hearings changed her, whether or not she has respect for the Supreme Court as an institution, and how her fight to stop gender violence continues today.

Host: Fabiola Cineas (@FabiolaCineas), Reporter, Vox

Guest: Anita Hill (@AnitaHill), professor, Brandeis University

References: 

• Getting Even with Anita Hill (Pushkin)
• Believing: Our Thirty-Year Journey to End Gender Violence by Anita Hill (Viking; 2021)
• Strange Justice: The Selling of Clarence Thomas by Jane Mayer and Jill Abramson (1994)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with Olúfẹ́mi Táíwò, whose new book Elite Capture is about how the wealthy and powerful co-opt political movements, and use the language of progressive activism to further their ends. They discuss the history and meaning of "identity politics," the notion of "woke capitalism," and how to arrive at a more constructive politics — one that actually engages directly in redistributing social resources and power, rather than achieving merely symbolic gains.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Olúfẹ́mi Táíwò (@OlufemiOTaiwo), author; professor of philosophy, Georgetown University

References: 

• Elite Capture: How the Powerful Took Over Identity Politics (And Everything Else) by Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò (Haymarket; 2022)
• "Identity Politics and Elite Capture" by Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò (Boston Review; May 7, 2020)
• "Niani S. Phillips is an Environmentalist with a serious commitment to sustainability." (McDonald's YouTube; Mar. 31)
• The Combahee River Collective Statement (1977)
• "Until Black Women Are Free, None of Us Will Be Free" by Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor (New Yorker; July 20, 2020)
• "Black Lives Matter Secretly Bought a $6 Million House" by Sean Campbell (Intelligencer; Apr. 4)
• Why I Am Not A Feminist: A Feminist Manifesto by Jessa Crispin (Melville House; 2017)
• "What's New About Woke Racial Capitalism (And What Isn't)" by Enzo Rossi and Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò (Spectre; Dec. 18, 2020)

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• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Vox’s Jamil Smith talks with journalist and author Eyal Press about "dirty work" — the jobs Americans do that, as Press explains, can lead workers to perform morally compromising activities unwittingly. They discuss examples of this kind of work (drone pilots, meat packers, prison aides), talk about its relation to the term "essential workers" that gained prominence during the pandemic, and explain how certain jobs highlight the disparities of class, race, and gender in American society.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Eyal Press (@EyalPress), author; journalist

References: 

• Dirty Work: Essential Jobs and the Hidden Toll of Inequality in America by Eyal Press (FSG; 2021)
• "What does it mean to take America's 'jobs of last resort'?" by Jamil Smith (Vox; Apr. 22)
• Empire of Pain: The Secret History of the Sackler Dynasty by Patrick Radden Keefe (Doubleday; 2021)
• The Social Network, dir. David Fincher (2010)
• The Jungle by Upton Sinclair (1906)
• The Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison (1952)
• The Civilizing Process by Norbert Elias (1939)
• "Good People and Dirty Work" by Everett C. Hughes (Social Problems, vol. 10 (1); 1962)
• The Line Becomes a River by Francisco Cantú (Riverhead; 2019)
• "Inside the Massive Jail that Doubles as Chicago's Largest Mental Health Facility" by Lili Holzer-Glier (Vera Institute of Justice; 2016)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with author and Washington Post columnist Christine Emba about whether or not we need to rethink sex. They discuss why, according to the research and reporting in Emba's new book Rethinking Sex, many Americans are unhappy with the sex they're having, and don't fully understand what they want. They also talk about how her Catholic faith informs her views on sex, why it's necessary to expand on the framework of "consent," and what kind of sexual culture Emba hopes to see in the world.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Christine Emba (@ChristineEmba), author & reporter

References: 

• Rethinking Sex: A Provocation by Christine Emba (Sentinel; 2022)
• "Consent is not enough. We need a new sexual ethic," by Christine Emba (Washington Post; Mar. 17)
• "People Have Been Having Less Sex—whether They're Teenagers or 40-Somethings" by Emily Willingham (Scientific American; Jan. 3)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Vox's Benji Jones talks with Indigenous leader Kimaren ole Riamit about the role of Indigenous peoples in the conservation movement. Bringing the perspective of his upbringing in the Kenyan Maasai pastoral community as well as advanced degrees earned at Western institutions, Kimaren discusses with Benji the power and potential of Indigenous knowledge in combating the climate crisis, and the challenges in bridging that knowledge with the global conservation effort.

Host: Benji Jones (@BenjiSJones), Environmental reporter, Vox

Guest: Kimaren ole Riamit, Maasai leader

References: 

• "Growing up Maasai and the art of healing the Earth" by Benji Jones (Vox; Mar. 16)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with professor Lyndsey Stonebridge about the philosopher Hannah Arendt, author of The Origins of Totalitarianism. Arendt might be best known for coining the phrase “the banality of evil” in her reporting on the trial of Adolf Eichmann in 1961, but in this episode Sean and Lyndsey discuss Arendt's insights into the roots of mass movements, how her flight from Nazi occupation shaped her worldview, and how loneliness and isolation — which abound in our world today — can prepare a population for an authoritarian turn.

The Philosophers is a new monthly series from Vox Conversations. Each episode will focus on a philosophical figure or school of thought from the past, and discuss how their ideas can help us make sense of our modern world and lives today.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews writer, Vox

Guest: Lyndsey Stonebridge (@lyndseystonebri), author; professor of humanities and human rights, University of Birmingham

Works by Hannah Arendt: 

• The Origins of Totalitarianism (1951), with the inclusion of the chapter "Ideology and Terror" in 1953; Eichmann in Jerusalem (1963); The Human Condition (1958); "Home to Roost: A Bicentennial Address" (1975); "Personal Responsibility under Dictatorship" (1964)

Other References: 

• The Judicial Imagination: Writing After Nuremberg by Lyndsey Stonebridge (Edinburgh University Press; 2011)
• Placeless People: Writings, Rights, and Refugees by Lyndsey Stonebridge (Oxford; 2018)
• Thinking Like Hannah Arendt by Lyndsey Stonebridge (Jonathan Cape; forthcoming 2022)
• "A 1951 book about totalitarianism is flying off the shelves. Here's why" by Sean Illing (Vox; updated Jan. 30, 2019)
• "Where loneliness can lead" by Samantha Rose Hill (Aeon; Oct. 16, 2020)
• The Lonely Crowd by David Riesman (1950)
• Immanuel Kant, Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Morals (1785) for the "categorical imperative"

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Russia's invasion of Ukraine is one of the biggest and most confusing political events of our lifetimes. We aim to bring some clarity in this special four-part series from Vox Conversations and host Zack Beauchamp, The War in Ukraine, Explained.

In part four, Zack speaks with author, political scientist, and scholar of European politics Ivan Krastev. They discuss the reverberations of Russia's invasion of Ukraine across Europe, from a sudden change of course in Germany and elections in France to the threatened intellectual foundations of the European Union nations' shared postwar identity, and how the war in Ukraine will shape the EU's future relations with the U.S. and China — and the future of Europe itself.

Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Ivan Krastev, political scientist; chairman, Centre for Liberal Strategies; permanent fellow, Institute for Human Sciences, IWM Vienna

References: 

• The Light That Failed: Why the West is Losing the Fight for Democracy by Stephen Holmes and Ivan Krastev (Pegasus; 2020)
• "We Are All Living in Vladimir Putin's World Now" by Ivan Krastev (New York Times; Feb. 27)
• "How the Weak Win Wars: A Theory of Asymmetric Conflict" by Ivan Arreguín-Toft (International Security, vol. 26 (1); 2001)
• Postwar: A History of Europe Since 1945 by Tony Judt (Penguin; 2006)
• The Idea of India by Sunil Khilnani (FSG; 1997)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with writer Michael Lewis about why it is that Americans are so good at producing knowledge, but so bad at identifying and utilizing that knowledge — the central issue of the new season of his podcast "Against the Rules." They discuss who counts as an expert, some fundamental impediments to disseminating knowledge, and whether or not there is a possible future where Americans regain their trust in experts, institutions, and each other.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Michael Lewis, author

References: 

• Against the Rules with Michael Lewis podcast (Pushkin)
• The Premonition: A Pandemic Story by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton; 2021 - paperback; 2022)
• The Fifth Risk by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton; 2018)
• The Revolt of the Public and the Crisis of Authority in the New Millennium by Martin Gurri (Stripe; 2014)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Russia's invasion of Ukraine is one of the biggest and most confusing political events of our lifetimes. We aim to bring some clarity in this special four-part series from Vox Conversations and host Zack Beauchamp, The War in Ukraine, Explained.

In part three, Zack speaks with professor, blogger, and nuclear arms expert Jeff Lewis about the looming nuclear threat of the conflict in Ukraine. They discuss the probability of escalation by both Russia and the U.S., what "tactical" nuclear weapons really are and how they're misunderstood, the double-edged sword of deterrence, and some of the ethical, political, and psychological realities of managing large stockpiles of devastating nuclear weapons.

Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Jeff Lewis (@ArmsControlWonk), founder and contributor, Arms Control Wonk; director, East Asia Nonproliferation Program, Middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey

References: 

• "Is Russia committing genocide in Ukraine?" by Zack Beauchamp (Vox; Apr. 13)

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This episode was made by: 

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• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with writer Daniel Pink about his book The Power of Regret. They discuss why regret can be not only useful, but potentially the most valuable emotion we have. Daniel and Sean talk about the difference between regret and "wallowing," how to anticipate regrets and act accordingly, and Daniel shares his findings on the regrets that Americans most have in common.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Daniel Pink (@DanielPink), author

References: 

• The Power of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward by Daniel H. Pink (Riverhead; 2022)
• Self-Compassion: The Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself by Kristin Neff (William Morrow; 2015)
• The Art and Science of Personality Development by Dan P. McAdams (Guilford; 2016)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Russia's invasion of Ukraine is one of the biggest and most confusing political events of our lifetimes. We aim to bring some clarity in this special four-part series from Vox Conversations and host Zack Beauchamp, The War in Ukraine, Explained.

In part two, Zack speaks with Dan Drezner, international relations professor and columnist for the Washington Post, about the massive slate of sanctions imposed upon Russia by the United States and other Western countries in the aftermath of Russia's invasion. They discuss how the sanctions actually affect the Kremlin and Russian citizens, the ripple effects on the larger global economy, and whether or not these sanctions signal a new global economic order.

Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Daniel Drezner (@dandrezner), columnist, Washington Post; professor, Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University

References: 

• "How robust is the global opposition to Russia's invasion of Ukraine?" by Daniel W. Drezner (Washington Post; March 29)
• Theories of International Politics and Zombies by Daniel W. Drezner (Princeton; 2014)
• The Sanctions Paradox: Economic Statecraft and International Relations by Daniel W. Drezner (Cambridge; 2010)
• "The World Is Splitting in Two" by Michael Schuman (Atlantic; March 28)
• The Economic Weapon: The Rise of Sanctions as a Tool of Modern War by Nicholas Mulder (Yale; 2022)

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This episode was made by: 

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• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Sean Illing talks with the author and self-described mystic David Spangler about parenting as a spiritual enterprise, where the parent communes in a radical way with the spirit of another and expands the limits of the self. They discuss what it means to adopt the "beginner's mindset" in parenting, relating to children as full individuals, and how to cope with obstacles that all parents experience — from misbegotten family dinners, to the perils of getting dressed in the morning.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: David Spangler, spiritual director, Lorian Institute

References: 

• Parent as Mystic, Mystic as Parent by David Spangler (Riverhead; 2000)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Russia's invasion of Ukraine is one of the biggest and most confusing political events of our lifetimes. We aim to bring some clarity in this special four-part series from Vox Conversations and host Zack Beauchamp, The War in Ukraine, Explained.

In part one, Zack speaks with political scientist Yoshiko Herrera about the country responsible for the war: Russia. They explore why Vladimir Putin decided to launch the invasion, what Russians think about the war, and how this conflict might change Russia's future.

Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Yoshiko Herrera (@yoshikoherrera), professor of political science, University of Wisconsin-Madison

References: 

• "9 big questions about Russia's war in Ukraine, answered" by Zack Beauchamp (Vox; Mar. 30)
• "The Bully in the Bubble: Putin and the Perils of Information Isolation" by Adam E. Casey and Seva Gunitsky (Foreign Affairs; Feb. 4)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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