The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Sean Illing talks with author and professor Robert Zaretsky about the French philosopher, novelist, and journalist Albert Camus (1913–1960). Though Camus might be best known for his novel The Stranger, Sean and Prof. Zaretsky explore the ideas contained in his philosophical essays "The Myth of Sisyphus," The Rebel, and in the allegorical novel The Plague, which saw a resurgence in interest over the past two years. They discuss the meaning of "the absurd," why one must imagine Sisyphus happy, and how the roots of mid-20th-century political nihilism (making sort of a comeback lately) can be found in one's relationship to abstract ideas.

This is the first episode of The Philosophers, a new series from Vox Conversations. Each episode will focus on a philosophical figure or school of thought from the past, and discuss how their ideas can help us make sense of our modern world and lives today.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews writer, Vox

Guest: Robert Zaretsky, author and professor, University of Houston

Works by Camus: 

• The Rebel (1951) ; The Stranger (1942) ; The Plague (1947) ; "The Myth of Sisyphus" (1942) ; "The Century of Fear" (in Neither Victims Nor Executioners; 1946) ; "The Human Crisis" (1946) ; The First Man (uncompleted manuscript, pub. 1960)

Other References: 

• "This is a time for solidarity" by Sean Illing (Vox; Mar. 15, 2020)
• "What Camus's The Plague can teach us about the Covid-19 pandemic" by Sean Illing (Vox; Jul. 22, 2020)
• A Life Worth Living: Albert Camus and the Quest for Meaning by Robert Zaretsky (Harvard University Press; 2016)
• Lo straniero, dir. by Luchino Visconti (Italian film adaptation of Camus's The Stranger; 1967 - English-dubbed version)
• Discourse on the Origin and Basis of Inequality Among Men, by Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1755; a.k.a. Rousseau's "Second Discourse")
• The Gay Science, by Friedrich Nietzsche (1882; passage on eternal recurrence: Bk. IV, sec. 341)
• Albert Camus's "The Human Crisis" read by Viggo Mortensen, 70 years later (Columbia University Maison Française; 2016)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox’s Jamil Smith talks with Charlie Sykes — journalist, author, stalwart "never Trumper," and a founder and editor-at-large of The Bulwark. They talk about the Republican response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the attraction of some self-professed conservatives to Vladimir Putin, the efforts by Republican lawmakers to ban books and topics from schools, and the devolution of conservative values within the post-Trump GOP.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Charlie Sykes (@SykesCharlie), editor-at-large, The Bulwark

References: 

• "Madison Cawthorn calls Ukraine government 'evil,' Zelenskyy 'a thug'" (WRAL.com; March 10)
• How The Right Lost Its Mind by Charles J. Sykes (St. Martins; 2017)
• "Florida's Ron DeSantis's CPAC speech champions pro-Covid policies" by Zeeshan Aleem (MSNBC Opinion; Feb. 25)
• "Trump-endorsed candidates struggling to raise money" by Josh Kraushaar (National Journal; Feb. 2)
• "Mitt Romney warns of 'extraordinary challenge' in preserving democracy" by Martin Pengelly (The Guardian; March 15)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Cristian Ayala
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with philosopher Lucy Allais about the nature, power, and limits of forgiveness. They talk about the role of forgiveness in the dissolution of apartheid in Allais's native South Africa, the distinction between forgiveness and punishment, and the prospect of using forgiveness as a political tool in order to move forward as a polarized democracy.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Lucy Allais, professor of philosophy, University of Witwatersrand and Johns Hopkins University

References: 

• "Elective Forgiveness" by Lucy Allais (International Journal of Philosophical Studies, v. 21 (5); 2013)
• "Forgiveness and Mercy" by Lucy Allais (South African Journal of Philosophy, v. 27 (1); 2008)
• "Forgiveness and Meaning in Life" by Lucy Allais, in The Oxford Handbook of Meaning in Life, ed. Iddo Landau (Oxford University Press; 2022)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Sofi LaLonde
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Alissa Wilkinson talks with cultural critic and author Isaac Butler about his new book, The Method. They discuss the transformation that the craft of acting underwent, tracing its origins from Konstantin Stanislavski in post-revolution Russia, through Hollywood in the mid-twentieth century, up to today. They talk about some of the lesser-known influences and practices associated with The Method, evaluate some touchstone performances in the history of cinema, and speculate about what might happen at this year's Academy Awards.

Host: Alissa Wilkinson (@alissamarie), film critic and senior culture reporter, Vox

Guests: Isaac Butler (@parabasis), cultural critic, theater director, author

References: 

• The Method: How the Twentieth Century Learned to Act by Isaac Butler (Bloomsbury; 2022)
• "Why the Oscars are so weird about real people roles" by Alissa Wilkinson (Vox; Feb. 22)
• "Remembering Hollywood's Hays Code, 40 Years On" by Bob Mondello (NPR; Aug. 8, 2008)
• United States v. Paramount Pictures, Inc. (334 U.S. 131; 1948)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with comedian David Cross, well-known for his decades-long stand-up career, as well as for his role on the cult hit TV show Arrested Development. They talk about the relationship between comedy and politics, whether comedy audiences are different than they used to be, what social media has done to us, and about his new special, I'm From the Future, which is available for streaming on David's website.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: David Cross (@davidcrosss), comedian & actor

References: 

• David's special, I'm From the Future (2022), is available for rental on officialdavidcross.com here.
• "David Cross on why his comedy tour pissed off people right and left" by Sean O'Neal (AV Club; Aug. 18, 2016)
• "Comedy's existential crisis" by Aja Romano (Vox; Feb. 8)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Constance Grady talks with Kiley Reid, author of the critically-acclaimed novel Such a Fun Age. In this episode, which is a recording of a live Vox Book Club event, they discuss what novels are really for, the ways that we all craft stories in our relationships and personal lives, and the nuanced ways in which Reid takes on race, class, and friendship in her engaging, fast-paced literary debut.

Host: Constance Grady (@constancegrady), staff writer, Vox

Guests: Kiley Reid (@kileyreid), author

References: 

• Such a Fun Age by Kiley Reid (G.P. Putnam's Sons; 2019)
• "The smart political argument behind the satire Such a Fun Age" by Constance Grady (Vox; Nov. 19, 2021)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with firearms journalist Stephen Gutowski, founder of TheReload.com. They discuss the major barriers, principles, and blind spots on both sides of the largely stagnant national conversation on guns and gun control in the United States. The conversation touches on political, legal, and emotional arguments motivating both gun enthusiasts and gun opponents; the Dickey Amendment, and its effective twenty-year ban on federally-funded gun violence research, and whether or not guns are truly part of American identity.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Stephen Gutowski (@StephenGutowski), firearms reporter and founder, TheReload.com

References: 

• Global Firearms Holdings as of 2017 (Small Arms Survey; 2018)
• "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun" by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz (Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, v. 86 (1); 1995)
• "The Contradictions of the Kleck Study" (Virginia Center for Public Safety)
• "More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows" by Melinda Wenner (Scientific American; Oct. 1, 2017)
• "How The NRA Worked To Stifle Gun Violence Research" by Samantha Raphelson (NPR; Apr. 5, 2018)
• "The Dickey Amendment on Federal Funding for Research on Gun Violence: A Legal Dissection" by Allen Rostron (American Journal of Public Health, v. 108 (7); 2018)
• "Spending Bill Lets CDC Study Gun Violence; But Researchers Are Skeptical It Will Help" by Nell Greenfieldboyce (NPR; Mar. 23, 2018)
• District of Columbia v. Heller (U.S. Supreme Court, 554 US 570; 2008)
• "Gun rights are back at the Supreme Court for the first time in more than a decade" by Nina Totenberg (NPR; Nov. 3, 2021)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hillary Frank, the creator of the podcasts The Longest Shortest Time and Here Lies Me, talks with journalist and author Judith Warner about middle school. They discuss the history of middle school in America and abroad, some of the formative social forces at play for middle schoolers, why the journey through middle school is akin to a kind of death, and why it is that children of this age — on the verge of adolescence — often act like such... jerks.

Host: Hillary Frank (@hillaryfrank), podcast producer, author

Guest: Judith Warner, author

References: 

• And Then They Stopped Talking to Me: Making Sense of Middle School by Judith Warner (Crown; 2020, paperback, 2021)
• Here Lies Me podcast (written, produced, and directed by Hillary Frank; produced in collaboration with Lemonada Media)
• Weird Parenting Wins by Hillary Frank (TarcherPerigree; 2019)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with journalist, author, and Russian disinformation scholar Peter Pomerantsev about the invasion of Ukraine. Recorded on Friday, Feb. 25th, they discuss the current state of the conflict, whether or not the warped rationales for Putin's invasion are actually convincing to the Russian people, and what sanctions might possibly make a lasting difference for the future of both Russia and Ukraine.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Peter Pomerantsev (@peterpomeranzev), author; Senior Fellow, Agora Institute, Johns Hopkins University

References: 

• This Is Not Propaganda: Adventures in the War Against Reality by Peter Pomerantsev (Public Affairs; 2019)
• Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible: The Surreal Heart of the New Russia by Peter Pomerantsev (Public Affairs; 2014)
• "Vladimir Putin: What's going on inside his head?" by Peter Pomerantsev (The Guardian; Feb. 26)
• "The Russian roots of our misinformation problem" by Sean Illing, in conversation with Peter Pomerantsev (Vox; Oct. 26, 2020)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox’s Jamil Smith talks with musician Robert Glasper, four-time Grammy-winner, about the release of his new album Black Radio III. They discuss Glasper's distinctive genre-defying sound, his unique gift for musical collaboration, and how he blends elements of R&B, gospel, and rock to create music that might irk some members of the "jazz police."

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Robert Glasper (@robertglasper), musician

References: 

• Robert Glasper's Black Radio III (available everywhere Feb. 25)
• Robert Glasper, "The Worst" (Jhené Aiko)
• Tour dates and more at robertglasper.com

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Efim Shapiro
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Benji Jones talks with food journalist and author Dan Saladino, whose new book Eating to Extinction documents rare foods and food cultures from around the world, showing how they are being affected by climate change, globalization, and industrial agricultural practices. Dan shares many incredible stories from his travels and reporting, including the last known garden growing a unique soybean, a 16-foot high corn that produces its own fertilizer, and a complex symbiosis between man, bird, and bee in remote Tanzania.

Host: Benji Jones (@BenjiSJones), Environmental reporter, Vox

Guest: Dan Saladino (@DanSaladinoUK), food journalist & author

References: 

• Eating to Extinction: The World's Rarest Foods and Why We Need to Save Them by Dan Saladino (FSG; 2022)
• The Food Programme (BBC Radio 4; also on Apple Podcasts)
• The Ark of Taste (Slow Food Foundation for Biodiversity)
• "The Corn of the Future Is Hundreds of Years Old and Makes Its Own Mucus" by Jason Daley (Smithsonian; Aug. 10, 2018)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with David Sirota, the journalist turned Oscar-nominated co-writer (with director Adam McKay) of the film Don't Look Up. They talk about the movie and how it was originally received, who the truest targets of the film's critique were, and what the movie has to say about how we can actually solve the monumental problems that we face as a society.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: David Sirota (@davidsirota), co-writer (with Adam McKay), Don't Look Up; journalist and founder, The Daily Poster

References: 

• Don't Look Up, dir. by Adam McKay (Netflix; 2021)
• "Four ways of knowing the meta-crisis" by Jonathan Rowson (Perspectiva/YouTube; Jan. 25)
• Meltdown, a podcast narrative by David Sirota; produced by Jigsaw Productions & Transmitter Media (Audible; 2021)
• The Uprising: An Unauthorized Tour of the Populist Revolt Scaring Wall Street and Washington by David Sirota (Crown; 2008)
• "Steve Bannon on How 2008 Planted the Seed for the Trump Presidency" by Noah Kulwin (New York; Aug. 10, 2018)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Just how worried should we be about the future of American democracy? This is the question at the center of a two-part series from Vox Conversations and host Zack Beauchamp.

For part two, Zack talks with political scientist Lee Drutman, author of Breaking the Two-Party Doom Loop. They discuss the history of the two-party system in American politics, and examine a number of possible structural reforms that could work to get the U.S. out of the morass it's in, looking to several other countries' democracies for inspiration.

And, if you missed it, check out part one in this series, a lively debate between Zack and the New York Times's Ross Douthat, on just how close we are to political violence, authoritarianism, and democratic breakdown.

Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Lee Drutman (@leedrutman), senior fellow, New America

References: 

• "How does this end?" by Zack Beauchamp (Vox; Jan. 3)
• Breaking the Two-Party Doom Loop: The Case for Multiparty Democracy in America (Oxford; 2020)
• "Democracy in America? Partisanship, Polarization, and the Robustness of Support for Democracy in the United States" by Matthew H. Graham and Milan W. Svolik (American Political Science Review, 114 (2); May 2020)
• "One way to reform the House of Representatives? Expand it" by Lee Drutman and Yuval Levin (Washington Post; Dec. 9, 2021)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with the author Johann Hari about his new book Stolen Focus, which explores what's happening — and what's already happened — to our attention. They discuss how exactly Big Tech "stole" our ability to focus, what many leading scientists say about how we are psychologically and physiologically changed by the powerful new draws on our attention, and whether or not we need an "attention rebellion" to fight back against the tech giants, whose business models depend on us getting easily distracted.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Johann Hari (@johannhari101), author

References: 

• Stolen Focus: Why You Can't Pay Attention — and How to Think Deeply Again by Johann Hari (Crown; 2022)
• Companion site with audio excerpts from interviews with experts and additional endnotes: stolenfocusbook.com
• Getting Ahead of ADHD by Joel T. Nigg (Guilford; 2017)
• "Capitalism is turning us into addicts" by Sean Illing, interviewing David T, Courtwright (Vox; Apr. 18, 2020)
• Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man by Marshall McLuhan (1964)
• "Enhancing attention through training" by Michael Posner, et al. (Current Opinion in Behavioral Sciences (4); 2015)
• "Facebook and texting made me do it: Media-induced task-switching while studying" by Larry Rosen, et al. (Computers in Human Behavior, 29 (3); 2013)
• "Accelerating dynamics of collective attention" by Sune Lehmann, et al. (Nature Communications; 2019)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Just how worried should we be about the future of American democracy? This is the question at the center of a two-part series from Vox Conversations and host Zack Beauchamp.

For part one, Zack talks with New York Times columnist Ross Douthat about whether or not we'll soon see an increase in violent political conflict in the United States. They discuss the role of bellicose fringe groups in politics today, whether or not a recent spate of restrictive voting laws constitute creeping authoritarianism, and the prospects that we'll see future attempts to subvert elections modeled on Trump's efforts in 2020 — or even going further.

Be sure to catch part two in this series, on breaking the two-party system in America and other possible democracy reforms, coming Thursday, Feb. 10th.

Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Ross Douthat (@DouthatNYT), Opinion Columnist, New York Times

References: 

• "How does this end?" by Zack Beauchamp (Vox; Jan. 3)
• "Let's Not Invent a Civil War" by Ross Douthat (New York Times; Jan. 12)
• How Civil Wars Start by Barbara F. Walter (Crown; 2022)
• "A Threat to Our Democracy: Election Subversion in the 2021 Legislative Session," Voting Rights Lab report (Sept. 29, 2021)
• "Republican Party moves to replace GOP board member who voted to certify Michigan election" by Paul Egan (Detroit Free Press; Jan. 18, 2021)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with Dan Pfeiffer, former senior advisor to President Obama and co-host of the Pod Save America podcast, about what is wrong with the Democratic Party's brand right now. They discuss what Dan calls the "Democratic messaging deficit," as well as whether the Democrats' stated values are in line with their efforts while in control of the Congress and White House, and what the Dems are really in store for in the midterm elections later this year — and beyond.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Dan Pfeiffer (@danpfeiffer), co-host, Pod Save America from Crooked Media; former senior advisor to President Obama

References: 

• "U.S. Political Party Preferences Shifted Greatly During 2021" by Jeffrey M. Jones (Gallup; Jan. 17)
• "Qualitative Research Findings - Virginia Post-Election Research" by Brian Striker and Oren Savir (ARG Research; Nov. 15, 2021)
• "Sununu says he skipped Senate bid to avoid being 'roadblock' to Biden for two years" by Lexi Lonas (The Hill; Jan. 18)
• "How the Media's Addiction to Bad News Hurts Dems" by Dan Pfeiffer (The Message Box; Jan. 3)
• "The most common words in Hillary Clinton's speeches, in one chart" by David Roberts (Vox; Dec. 16, 2016)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Constance Grady talks with Bart Nickerson, the co-creator of new TV show Yellowjackets, which airs on Showtime. Yellowjackets follows a girls' soccer team, stranded in the Canadian wilderness in 1996 as teenagers — and also the present-day middle-aged women that some of the survivors become. Bart and Constance discuss the role of trauma on television, the process of crafting characters across two timelines, and why the struggle for survival (and cannibalism) fits a story about adolescence.

Host: Constance Grady (@constancegrady), staff writer, Vox

Guests: Bart Nickerson, co-creator (with Ashley Lyle) of Yellowjackets on Showtime

References: 

• "The Case Against the Trauma Plot" by Parul Sehgal (New Yorker; Dec. 27, 2021)
• "Too many movies right now are 'about trauma.' The Matrix Resurrections actually does the work," by Emily VanDerWerff (Vox; Dec. 24, 2021)
• "Yellowjackets is prestige Pretty Little Liars. Hear me out," by Constance Grady (Vox; Jan. 7)
• "Yellowjackets brilliantly mixes teen angst, cannibalism, and midlife crises — with major Lost vibes" by Emily VanDerWerff (Vox; Nov. 12, 2021)
• "The slippery genius of the Cinderella story" by Constance Grady (Vox; June 5, 2019)
• "'Yellowjackets' Leans In to Savagery" by Alexis Soloski (New York Times; Nov. 12, 2021)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with David Hamilton, a scientist and former research chemist turned author, about his new book Why Woo-Woo Works, in which he offers a scientifically-grounded defense of alternative practices like meditation, crystals, and the law of attraction. They discuss the placebo effect and its far-reaching consequences for our understanding of the mind-body connection, the therapeutic potential of positive thinking, and why so much of what is called "woo-woo" still lies mostly outside the bounds of conventional Western medicine.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Dr. David R. Hamilton (@DrDRHamilton), author

References: 

• Why Woo-Woo Works: The Surprising Science Behind Meditation, Reiki, Crystals, and Other Alternative Practices by David R. Hamilton, PhD (Hay House; 2021)
• The Magic Power of Your Mind by Walter M. Germain (1940)
• "The mechanism of placebo analgesia" by J.D. Levine, N.C. Gordon, H.L. Fields (Lancet; Sept. 1978)
• How Your Mind Can Heal Your Body by David R. Hamilton, PhD (Hay House; 2018)
• The British Society of Lifestyle Medicine
• "Effects of Colorants and Flavorants on Identification, Perceived Flavor Intensity, and Hedonic Quality of Fruit-Flavored Beverages and Cake" by C.N. DuBose, A.V. Cardello, O. Maller (Journal of Food Science 45; 1980)
• "Writing About Emotional Experiences as a Therapeutic Process" by James W. Pennebaker (Psychological Science; 1997)
• "Psychology's Replication Crisis Is Running Out of Excuses" by Ed Yong (Atlantic; Nov. 19, 2018)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Fabiola Cineas talks with author, lawyer, and organizer Derecka Purnell about her recent book Becoming Abolitionists. They discuss Derecka's journey to defending the idea of police abolition, and what that position really entails. They explore questions about the historical and social role of policing in society, how to imagine a future where we radically rethink our system of criminal justice, and how we can acknowledge and incorporate current data about crime—while still rethinking our inherited assumptions about police.

Host: Fabiola Cineas (@FabiolaCineas), reporter, Vox

Guests: Derecka Purnell (@dereckapurnell), author

References: 

• Becoming Abolitionists: Police, Protests, and the Pursuit of Freedom by Derecka Purnell (Astra House; 2021)
• The Black Jacobins: Toussaint L'Ouverture and the San Domingo Revolution by C.L.R. James (Vintage; 1989)
• Black Reconstruction in America 1860–1880 by W.E.B. Du Bois (1935)
• "One American city's model of policing reform means building 'social currency'" by Nathan Layne (June 12, 2020; Reuters)
• "The Camden Police Department is Not a Model for Policing in the Post-George Floyd Era" by Brendan McQuade (June 12, 2020; The Appeal)
• "Murder Rose by Almost 30% in 2020. It's Rising at a Slower Rate in 2021" by Jeff Asher (Sept. 22, 2021; New York Times)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Constance Grady talks with novelist Lauren Groff about her latest book, the National Book Award finalist Matrix, before a virtual audience for the Vox Book Club. They discuss the enigmatic historical figure at the center of the novel, the politics of women-led power structures, and the pros and cons of writing a good sex scene.

Host: Constance Grady (@constancegrady), staff writer, Vox

Guests: Lauren Groff (@legroff), author

References: 

• Matrix by Lauren Groff (2021; Riverhead)
• "In Lauren Groff's Matrix, medieval nuns build a feminist utopia" by Constance Grady (Oct. 15, 2021; Vox)
• Fates and Furies by Lauren Groff (2016; Riverhead)
• The Lays of Marie de France (tr. Eugene Mason)
• Wayward Lives, Beautiful Experiments by Saidiya Hartman (2019; Norton)
• Book of Ages: The Life and Opinions of Jane Franklin by Jill Lepore (2014; Vintage)
• Arcadia by Lauren Groff (2012; Voice)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with philosopher David Chalmers about virtual worlds and the nature of reality, and other topics that stem from Chalmers's new book Reality+. In this far-reaching discussion, Sean and Prof. Chalmers get into the makeup of human consciousness, the question of whether we're living in a computer simulation, and — of course — The Matrix. Are digital worlds genuine realities, or will their proliferation lead to a troublesome turning away from the physical world?

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: David Chalmers, University Professor of Philosophy and Neural Science, NYU; co-director, Center for Mind, Brain, and Consciousness

References: 

• Reality+: Virtual Worlds and the Problems of Philosophy by David J. Chalmers (Norton; 2022)
• Meditations on First Philosophy by René Descartes (1641)
• "Are You Living In a Computer Simulation?" by Nick Bostrom (Philosophical Quarterly vol. 53 (211); 2003)
• The Matrix (1999), dir. by The Wachowskis; The Matrix Resurrections (2021), dir. by Lana Wachowski
• Free Guy (2021), dir. by Shawn Levy
• Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson (1992)
• Anarchy, State, and Utopia by Robert Nozick (1974)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Dylan Matthews talks with Congressman Jamie Raskin about the tragic loss of his son Tommy, who was twenty-five years old when he died at the end of 2020. Rep. Raskin also speaks about the insurrection on January 6th, 2021, and his role as floor manager for Trump's second impeachment trial. They discuss the passions that Tommy cultivated and shared with the world, the experience of being in the Capitol as it was stormed by rioters, and the ongoing work of the House Select Committee on the January 6 Attack.

Host: Dylan Matthews (@dylanmatt), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Jamie Raskin (@RepRaskin), U.S. Representative (D-MD, 8th District); author

References: 

• Unthinkable: Trauma, Truth, and the Trials of American Democracy by Jamie Raskin (Harper; 2022)
• “Politics as a Vocation,” Max Weber (1919)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Sean Illing talks to Yale professor and author Jason Stanley about why American democracy provides such fertile soil for fascism, how Donald Trump demonstrated how easy it was for our country to flirt with a fascist future and what we can do about it.

Correction (2/1/21): Professor Stanley suggested in this conversation that West Virginia declined to expand the Medicaid option in 2013. In fact, the state did expand the program and has gradually added enrollment since 2013.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Jason Stanley (@jasonintrator), Jacob Urowsky Professor of Philosophy, Yale University; author

References: 

• How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them by Jason Stanley (Random House; 2018)
• How Propaganda Works by Jason Stanley (Princeton; 2015)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Jamil Smith talks with author Clint Smith III about his book How the Word Is Passed, which documents the writer's personal journey visiting sites that embody the legacy of American slavery. They discuss the power of this re-confrontation, how to bridge the gaps in education and awareness of America's past, and the experience of Black writers in a nation that is "a web of contradictions."

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Clint Smith III (@ClintSmithIII), Staff writer, The Atlantic

References: 

• How the Word Is Passed: A Reckoning with the History of Slavery Across America by Clint Smith (Little, Brown; 2021)
• "Why Confederate Lies Live On" by Clint Smith (The Atlantic; May 10)
• "The lost neighborhood under New York's Central Park" by Ranjani Chakraborty (Vox; Jan. 20, 2020)
• "The Statue of Liberty was created to celebrate freed slaves, not immigrants, its new museum recounts" by Gillian Brockell (Washington Post; May 23, 2019)
• "No, the Civil War didn't erase slavery's harm" by W. Caleb McDaniel (Houston Chronicle; July 12, 2019)
• Nikole Hannah-Jones Issues Statement on Decision to Decline Tenure Offer at University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill and to Accept Knight Chair Appointment at Howard University (NAACP Legal Defense Fund; July 6)
• Crash Course: Black American History, hosted by Clint Smith

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Sean Illing talks with international politics professor and amateur ufologist Alex Wendt about why it's time to start thinking more seriously about the earth-shattering implications of discovering extraterrestrial life. They discuss the taboos against serious scientific inquiry into extraterrestrial existence, the US military's official UFO report and the inexplicable videos released by the Pentagon, and what the possible explanations might be for what's been seen.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Alexander Wendt, Professor of International Security and Political Science, The Ohio State University

References: 

• "The Pentagon Released U.F.O. Videos. Don't Hold Your Breath for a Breakthrough" by Alan Yuhas (New York Times; June 3)
• "Sovereignty and the UFO" by Alexander Wendt and Raymond Duvall (Political Theory; 2008)
• "Wanted: A Science of UFOs" (TEDx Columbus; February 2020)
• The Pentagon UFO Report: "Preliminary Assessment: Unidentified Aerial Phenomena" (June 25)
• "Experts Weigh In on Pentagon UFO Report" by Leonard David (Scientific American; June 8)
• "The Unexplained Phenomena of the U.F.O. Report" by Gideon Lewis-Kraus (The New Yorker; June 26)
• "Those amazing Navy UFO videos may have down-to-earth explanations, skeptics contend" by Andrew Dyer (San Diego Union-Tribune; May 29)
• Friedrich Nietzsche, Will to Power, Book One (1885-1886)
• Update: "DoD Announces the Establishment of the Airborne Object Identification and Management Synchronization Group (AOIMSG)" (Nov. 23)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox’s Jamil Smith talks with NBA legend Chris Bosh about his basketball career, his youth, and his legacy. They discuss Bosh’s transition to the NBA, his role on the controversial Miami Heat teams that won two championships (and lost two), and the psychological toll of the injuries that later sidelined him, leading to his retirement. Bosh reflects candidly on his hopes for post-basketball life, and his new book, Letters to a Young Athlete.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Chris Bosh (@chrisbosh), two-time NBA champion, eleven-time NBA all-star, National Basketball Hall-of-Famer; author

References: 

• Letters to a Young Athlete by Chris Bosh (Penguin; 2021)
• Chris Bosh's Hall of Fame Enshrinement Speech (NBA; Sept. 11)
• "Chris Bosh owned the Hall of Fame stage with a master class in closure" by Ben Golliver (Washington Post; Sept. 13)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with political commentator and author David French about modern conservatism and masculinity. They discuss the divergence between the Right's view of masculinity and what they fear the Left's view is, how Trump and politicians in his image have changed the conception of manliness within the GOP, and what the continued glorification of these revised ideals will mean for our political future in America.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: David French (@DavidAFrench), senior editor, The Dispatch; contributing writer, The Atlantic

References: 

• "The New Right's Strange and Dangerous Cult of Toughness" by David French (Atlantic; Dec. 1)
• American Sniper, dir. Clint Eastwood (2014)
• American Psychological Association, Guidelines for Psychological Practice with Boys and Men (2018)
• Senator Hawley Delivers National Conservatism Keynote on the Left's Attack on Men in America
• "Madison Cawthorn: Society 'De-masculates' Men, Parents Should Raise Sons to Be Monsters" by Daniel Villarreal (Newsweek, Oct. 18)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Emily Stewart talks with Tariq Fancy about whether or not "socially responsible investment" is a scam. Fancy is a former executive who led sustainable investing at BlackRock, one of the world's largest asset management firms. The two discuss why these investment vehicles were developed and promoted, the failure of corporations to voluntarily self-regulate, and the need for government action to actually address the issues that ESG funds claim to be taking on.

Host: Emily Stewart (@EmilyStewartM), Senior reporter, Vox

Guest: Tariq Fancy (@sosofancy), founder & CEO, Rumie Initiative; former CIO for sustainable investing, BlackRock

References: 

• "The thorny truth about socially responsible investing" by Emily Stewart (Vox; Oct. 10)
• "Blackrock's former sustainable investing chief now thinks ESG is a 'dangerous placebo'" by Silvia Amaro (CNBC; Aug. 24)
• "BlackRock's Message: Contribute to Society, or Risk Losing Our Support" by Andrew Ross Sorkin (New York Times; Jan. 15, 2018)
• "Harvard Will Move to Divest its Endowment from Fossil Fuels" by Jasper G. Goodman and Kelsey J. Griffin (The Crimson; Sept. 10)
• "The Illusory Promise of Stakeholder Governance" by Lucian A. Bebchuk and Roberto Tallarita (Cornell Law Review; Dec. 2020)
• "In His Final Shareholder Letter, Jeff Bezos Explains a Profoundly Simple Lesson Most Leaders Overlook" by Jason Aten (Inc.; Apr. 16)
• "Little Engine No. 1 beat Exxon with just $12.5 million" by Svea Herbst-Bayliss (Reuters; June 29)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with psychologist Paul Bloom about his new book The Sweet Spot, and whether it's necessary to experience suffering in order to live a fulfilling, meaningful life. They discuss the rich philosophical history of the question: what does it mean to be happy? They also talk about why some people are drawn to scary movies, whether or not to plug in to the Matrix, and why a good paradigm for a well-lived life might be found in the example of... a stand-up comedian.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Paul Bloom (@paulbloomatyale), psychologist; author

References: 

• The Sweet Spot: The Pleasures of Suffering and the Search for Meaning by Paul Bloom (Ecco; 2021)
• The Twilight Zone, season 1, episode 28: "A Nice Place to Visit" (1960)
• "Masochism as escape from self" by Roy Baumeister (Journal of Sex Research, 25 (1); 1988)
• Anarchy, State, and Utopia by Robert Nozick (Basic Books; 1974); an excerpt on the "experience machine"
• "If you like it, does it matter if it's real?" by Felipe de Brigard (Philosophical Psychology, 23 (1); 2010)
• "High income improves evaluation of life but not emotional well-being" by Daniel Kahneman and Angus Deaton (PNAS; 2010)
• Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (Harper Perennial Modern Classics; 1990)
• "What Becoming a Parent Really Does to Your Happiness" by Paul Bloom (Atlantic; Nov. 2)
• "A psychologically rich Life: Beyond happiness and meaning" by Shigehiro Oishi and Erin C. Westgate (Psychological Review; 2021)
• "Happiness: The Three Traditional Theories" by Martin E.P. Seligman and Ed Royzman (2003)
• Trying Not to Try: Ancient China, Modern Science, and the Power of Spontaneity by Edward Slingerland (Crown; 2015)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Jamil Smith talks with Dr, Robert Bullard, a pioneer in the crusade for environmental justice, about his more than four decades in the fight. They discuss how the movement to recognize environmental civil rights began, overcame some of its early opposition, and the landmark legal case that established a constitutional protection against racist environmental policies and practices. Bullard, a member of the White House Environmental Justice Advisory Council, also discusses how the Biden administration plans to address disproportionately affected communities.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Robert Bullard (@DrBobBullard), co-chair, National Black Environmental Justice Network; professor, Texas Southern University

References: 

• "Another Reason We Can't Breathe" by Jamil Smith (Rolling Stone; Oct. 27, 2020)
• The 17 Principles of Environmental Justice (adopted by the NBEJN on Oct. 27, 1991)
• "Environmental Racism: Recognition, Litigation, and Alleviation" by Pamela Duncan (Tulane Environmental Law Journal, vol. 6, no. 2; 1993)
• Dumping in Dixie: Race, Class, and Environmental Quality by Robert Bullard (Routledge; 1990)
• "One reason why coronavirus is hitting Black Americans the hardest" by Ranjani Chakraborty (Vox; May 22, 2020)
• "There's a clear fix to helping Black communities fight pollution" by Rachel Ramirez (Vox; Feb. 26)
• "The Path to Achieving Justice 40" by Shalanda Young, Brenda Mallory, and Gina McCarthy (White House; July 20)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with historian Jill Lepore about her new podcast: The Evening Rocket explores Elon Musk and the new form of extravagant, extreme capitalism — which Lepore dubs "Muskism" — that he has ushered in. They discuss the formative role played by science fiction stories, why the super-wealthy are drawn to space travel, and why, according to Lepore, Elon Musk is not much of a futurist after all.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Jill Lepore, podcast host; professor, Harvard University

References: 

• Elon Musk: The Evening Rocket by Jill Lepore (Pushkin/BBC; Nov. 2021)
• Lo and Behold, Reveries of the Connected World, dir. Werner Herzog (2016)
• The Mars Trilogy (Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars) by Kim Stanley Robinson (Del Ray; 1992, 1993, 1996; re-issue 2021)
• Technocracy Digest issues on the Internet Archive
• "Science Fiction and Mrs. Brown" by Ursula K. Le Guin (1976)
• Elon Musk on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert (Sept. 10, 2015)
• Elon Musk's Neuralink demonstration (Aug. 28, 2020)
• "Newt Gingrich trying to sell Trump on a cheap moon plan" by Bryan Bender (Politico; Aug. 19, 2019)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Benji Jones talks with the celebrated entomologist, biologist, and naturalist E.O. Wilson. They talk about Wilson's sixty-plus years as a leading thinker in his field, how his expeditions studying ant species around the world informed his understanding of human beings, and how his discoveries and ideas have mainstreamed the idea of biodiversity and inspired bold new conservation movements.

Host: Benji Jones (@BenjiSJones), Environmental reporter, Vox

Guest: E.O. Wilson, author; professor emeritus, Harvard University; chair, E.O. Wilson Biodiversity Foundation (@EOWilsonFndtn)

References: 

• Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson (Harvard; 1975)
• "What 'extinction' really means — and what it leaves out" by Benji Jones (Vox; Sept. 30)
• "The case against the concept of biodiversity" by Clare Fieseler (Vox; Aug. 5)
• The Theory of Island Biogeography by Robert H. MacArthur and Edward O. Wilson (Princeton; 1967)
• Half-Earth: Our Planet's Fight for Life by Edward O. Wilson (Liveright; 2017)
• The Half-Earth Project

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with Anne Helen Petersen and her partner Charlie Warzel about their new book, Out of Office: The Big Problem and Bigger Promise of Working from Home. They talk about a new model of remote work, why Americans have a problematic relationship with work, and how to move toward a rational future (as opposed to a national emergency) of working from home.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guests: Anne Helen Petersen (@annehelen) & Charlie Warzel (@cwarzel), authors

References: 

• Out of Office: The Big Problem and Bigger Promise of Working from Home by Charlie Warzel and Anne Helen Petersen (Knopf; Dec. 7, 2021)
• "How millennials became the burnout generation" by Sean Illing, in conversation with Anne Helen Petersen (Vox; Dec. 3, 2020)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with Briahna Joy Gray, the former national press secretary for the Bernie Sanders 2020 Presidential campaign, and current host of the Bad Faith podcast. They discuss the practical challenges facing the Left in the Biden era, untangle the ways in which race and class affect electoral outcomes and should influence messaging strategies, and assess the state of the ongoing effort for a platform of robust, material economic changes.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Briahna Joy Gray (@briebriejoy), Host, Bad Faith podcast

References: 

• "Looking for Obama's hidden hand in candidates coalescing around Biden" by Carol E. Lee, Kristen Welker, Josh Lederman and Amanda Golden (NBC News; Mar. 2, 2020)
• "'Accelerate the Endgame': Obama's Role in Wrapping Up the Primary" by Glenn Thrush (New York Times; Apr. 14, 2020)
• "Race and Realignments In Recent American Elections" by Michael Barber and Jeremy C. Pope (working paper; Nov. 8)
• "Commonsense Solidarity: How a working-class coalition can be built, and maintained" by Jared Abbott, Leanne Fan, et al. (Jacobin & Center for Working-Class Politics; Nov. 2021)
• Bad Faith, ep. 117: "Are Progressive Policies Really Popular? w/ Matt Bruenig, Eric Levitz, & Osita Nwanevu" (YouTube; Oct. 22)
• "A Problem for Kamala Harris: Can a Prosecutor Become President in the Age of Black Lives Matter?" by Briahna Joy Gray (The Intercept; Jan. 20, 2019)
• "How Barack Obama helped convince NBA players to end their strike and return to play" by Ricky O'Donnell (SB Nation; Aug. 29, 2020)
• White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo (Beacon; 2020)
• Why I Am Not a Feminist: A Feminist Manifesto by Jessa Crispin (Melville House; 2017)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Rebecca Jennings talks with Taylor Lorenz, tech culture reporter for the New York Times, about the creator economy: what it is, who's in it, and why more people are paying attention to it. They also talk about the hidden toll of running your own individual media company, the elusive term "cheugy," and the perils of reporting on internet culture and becoming (as Taylor occasionally has) part of the story.

Host: Rebecca Jennings (@rebexxxxa), senior correspondent, Vox

Guest: Taylor Lorenz (@TaylorLorenz), technology reporter, New York Times

References: 

• "For Creators, Everything Is for Sale" by Taylor Lorenz (New York Times; Mar. 11)
• "The sexfluencers" by Rebecca Jennings (Vox; Oct. 28)
• "my boss is an app and I owe it money" by @prophethusband (Mar. 23, 2018)
• "The D'Amelio kids are not all right" by Rebecca Jennings (Vox; Sept. 14)
• Chasing Cameron dir. Brandon Ayres (Netflix; 2016)
• "NFTs Weren't Supposed to End Like This" by Anil Dash (The Atlantic; Apr. 2)
• "What Is 'Cheugy'? You Know It When You See It" by Taylor Lorenz (New York Times; May 3)
• "What is cheugy? Here are 10 ways to know if you fit the description" by Alexander Kacala and Miah Hardy (The Today Show; May 6)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with Chris Hayes, author, commentator, and host of All In With Chris Hayes on MSNBC. They discuss his recent essay in the New Yorker about fame and the internet, why we seek attention from strangers online, and how some German philosophers might offer guidance for our predicament.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Chris Hayes (@chrislhayes), host, All In With Chris Hayes on MSNBC

References: 

• "On the Internet, We're Always Famous" by Chris Hayes (New Yorker; Sept. 24)
• “We Should All Know Less About Each Other” by Michelle Goldberg (New York Times; Nov. 1)
• Plato, Phaedrus (c. 370 BCE)
• Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business by Neil Postman (Penguin; 2005)
• G.W.F. Hegel, Phenomenology of Spirit (1807)
• Introduction to the Reading of Hegel: Lectures on the "Phenomenology of Spirit" by Alexandre Kojève (1947; tr. 1969)
• The Attention Merchants: The Epic Scramble to Get Inside Our Heads by Tim Wu (Vintage; 2017)
• Why Buddhism is True: The Science and Philosophy of Meditation and Enlightenment by Robert Wright (Simon & Schuster; 2018)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Jamil Smith talks with Caroline Randall Williams, academic, poet, and co-author (with her mother, Alice Randall) of Soul Food Love. They discuss the ways in which the African American culinary tradition is interpreted, how to tell stories through cooking, and why what we cook and eat is inextricably bound up with who we are.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Caroline Randall Williams (@caroranwill), author; writer-in-residence of Medicine, Health, and Society, Vanderbilt University

References: 

• "You Want a Confederate Monument? My Body Is a Confederate Monument" by Caroline Randall Williams (New York Times; June 26, 2020)
• Soul Food Love: Healthy Recipes Inspired by One Hundred Years of Cooking in a Black Family by Alice Randall and Caroline Randall Williams (Clarkson Potter; 2015)
• High on the Hog: How African American Cuisine Transformed America, dir. by Roger Ross Williams, Yoruba Richen, and Jonathan Clasberry (Netflix; 2021)
• "Race, Ethnicity, Expressive Authenticity: Can White People Sing the Blues?" by Joel Rudinow (Journal of Aesthetics and Art Criticism, 52 (1); 1994)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with Sebastian Junger, journalist, filmmaker, and author of the recent book Freedom. Informed by his experience hiking (and trespassing) along America's rail lines, Junger discusses the paradoxes of a "free" society, his recent near-death experience, and how the definition of freedom can change over the course of a life.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Sebastian Junger (@sebastianjunger), author & filmmaker

References: 

• Freedom by Sebastian Junger (Simon & Schuster; 2021)
• The Last Patrol dir. Sebastian Junger (HBO Films; 2014)
• Our Political Nature: Two Evolutionary Origins of What Divides Us by Avi Tuschman (Rowman & Littlefield; 2013)
• Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging by Sebastian Junger (Twelve; 2016)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Anna North talks with Krys Malcolm Belc, nonbinary transmasculine parent, essayist, and author of the memoir The Natural Mother of the Child. They talk about what it means to be a parent, our gendered assumptions about parenthood, and the dynamics of gender identity in having and raising children.

Host: Anna North (@annanorthtweets), Senior Reporter, Vox

Guest: Krys Malcolm Belc (@krysmalcolmbelc), author

References: 

• The Natural Mother of the Child: A Memoir of Nonbinary Parenthood by Krys Malcolm Belc (Counterpoint; 2021)
• “A Few Words About Breasts” by Nora Ephron (Esquire; May 1972)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with John McWhorter, linguist, New York Times columnist, and author of Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America. They talk about the effects of modern antiracism, why McWhorter compares it to a religion, and the societal implications of the way we talk — and don't talk — about racism.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: John McWhorter (@JohnHMcWhorter), author

References: 

• Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America by John McWhorter (Portfolio; 2021)
• How to Be an Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi (One World; 2019)
• White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism by Robin DiAngelo (Beacon; 2020)
• “What Hope?” by John McWhorter (New Republic; Aug. 10, 2010), a review of Race, Wrongs, and Remedies by Amy Wax (Rowman & Littlefield; 2009)
• “The Case for Reparations” by Ta-Nehisi Coates (The Atlantic; June 2014)
• The Debt: What America Owes to Blacks by Randall Robinson (Plume; 2001)
• “Alison Roman and Chrissy Teigen’s feud is about more than selling out” by Alex Abad-Santos (Vox; May 11, 2020)
• “Professor Not Teaching After Blackface ‘Othello’ Showing" by Colleen Flaherty (Inside Higher Ed; Oct. 11)
• “The Middle-Aged Sadness Behind the Cancel Culture Panic” by Michelle Goldberg (New York Times; Sept. 20)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox culture contributor Anne Helen Petersen talks with Liz O'Donnell, an advocate for working caregivers and the author of Working Daughter: A Guide to Caring for Your Aging Parents While Making a Living. They talk about the emotional and financial costs of elder care in America, how the burden disproportionately falls on women, and what everyone should know before taking on a caregiving role.

Host: Anne Helen Petersen (@annehelen), culture contributor, Vox

Guest: Liz O'Donnell (@LizODTweets), founder, Working Daughter

References: 

• "The staggering, invisible, exhausting costs of caring for America's elderly" by Anne Helen Petersen (Vox; Aug. 26)
• Working Daughter: A Guide to Caring for Your Aging Parents While Making a Living by Liz O'Donnell (Rowman & Littlefield; 2019)
• The Working Daughter Facebook group
• National Domestic Workers Alliance

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• Vox Audio Fellow: Victoria Dominguez

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with Joe Bernstein of BuzzFeed News about online disinformation and what — if anything — can be done about it. They discuss the role of tech giants in the spread of propaganda, why it's been impossible for researchers to agree on what disinformation even is, and how the nature of both mass media and democracy means that disinformation is here to stay.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Joe Bernstein (@Bernstein), Senior Reporter, BuzzFeed News

References: 

• "Bad News: Selling the story of disinformation" by Joseph Bernstein (Harper's; Sept. 2021)
• "Civil Society Must Be Defended: Misinformation, Moral Panics, and Wars of Restoration" by Jack Bratich (Communication, Culture & Critique 13 (3); Sept. 2020)
• "The Priest in Politics: Father Charles E. Coughlin and the Presidential Election of 1936" by Philip A. Grant Jr. (Records of the American Catholic Historical Society of Philadelphia 101 (1); 1990)
• "Lying in Politics: Reflections on The Pentagon Papers" by Hannah Arendt (NYRB; Nov. 18, 1971)
• Subprime Attention Crisis: Advertising and the Time Bomb at the Heart of the Internet by Tim Hwang (FSG Originals; 2020)
• "Does Instagram Harm Girls? No One Actually Knows" by Laurence Steinberg (New York Times; Oct. 10)
• The Radio Right: How a Band of Broadcasters Took on the Federal Government and Built the Modern Conservative Movement by Paul Matzko (Oxford; 2020)
• "What's so bad about scientism?" by Moti Mizrahi (Social Epistemology 31 (4); 2017)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Jamil Smith talks with Keisha Blain, associate professor of history at the University of Pittsburgh and author of Until I Am Free: Fannie Lou Hamer's Enduring Message to America. They discuss the legacy of Fannie Lou Hamer, a sharecropper-turned-civil-rights-activist, whose speech about voting rights at the 1964 Democratic National Convention changed how the Democratic Party viewed Black activism. They talk about how Hamer's ideas influence movements for human rights and racial equity today.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Keisha Blain (@KeishaBlain), author; professor of history, University of Pittsburgh

References: 

• Until I Am Free: Fannie Lou Hamer's Enduring Message to America by Keisha Blain (Beacon Press; 2021)
• Fannie Lou Hamer's speech at the DNC (August 22, 1964)
• American Experience: Freedom Summer (dir. Stanley Nelson. PBS; 2014)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with writer and New York Times Book Review editor Pamela Paul about her book 100 Things We've Lost to the Internet and the ways, big and small, that the internet has changed our lives. They talk about the complicated relationship between change, innovation and loss, and how to understand who we are and who we've become in a world where we're never truly offline.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Pamela Paul (@PamelaPaulNYT), author and editor

References: 

• 100 Things We've Lost to the Internet by Pamela Paul (Penguin Random House; 2021)
• Pornified: How Pornography Is Damaging Our Lives, Our Relationships, and Our Families by Pamela Paul (St. Martin's Griffin; 2006)
• "Let Children Get Bored Again" by Pamela Paul (New York Times; Feb. 2, 2019)
• "For Teen Girls, Instagram Is a Cesspool" by Lindsay Crouse (New York Times; Oct. 8)
• "The Moral Panic Engulfing Instagram" by Farhad Manjoo (New York Times; Oct. 13)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Constance Grady talks with novelist Susanna Clarke about her latest book, Piranesi, before a virtual audience for the Vox Book Club. They discuss how Clarke's novel engages with themes that have come to characterize the pandemic experience, such as solitude, confinement, and isolation from society. They explore the idea of being forced to step away from the world. and what we lose — and gain — when we do.

Host: Constance Grady (@constancegrady), staff writer, Vox

Guests: Susanna Clarke, novelist

References: 

• Piranesi by Susanna Clarke (Bloomsbury; 2021)
• Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell: A Novel by Susanna Clarke (Tor; 2006)
• "The meditative empathy of Susanna Clarke's Piranesi" by Constance Grady (Vox; Sept. 17)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Jamil Smith talks with attorney, author, and activist Bryan Stevenson about the newly expanded Legacy Museum in Montgomery, Alabama. They discuss the museum's project to connect America's history of enslavement with the contemporary realities of voter suppression, police brutality, and mass incarceration. They also talk about the museum's relationship to Stevenson's work with the Equal Justice Initiative, and legal advocacy on behalf of the wrongfully convicted.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Bryan Stevenson, founder and executive director, Equal Justice Initiative

References: 

• The Legacy Museum: From Enslavement to Mass Incarceration (400 N. Court Street, Montgomery, Alabama)
• The National Memorial for Peace and Justice (Montgomery, Alabama)
• Just Mercy: A Story of Justice and Redemption by Bryan Stevenson (Penguin Random House; 2015)
• "Images of Border Patrol's Treatment of Haitian Migrants Prompt Outrage" by Eileen Sullivan and Zolan Kanno-Youngs (New York Times; Sept. 21)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with writer Will Storr about his new book The Status Game, and its central idea: all human beings are constantly competing for status. They discuss how certain aspects of society "supercharge" our innate drive for status, how social media has hijacked these impulses, and the risks posed by the status game's most dangerous players.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Will Storr (@wstorr), author and journalist

References: 

• The Status Game: On Social Position and How We Use It by Will Storr (Harper Collins UK; 2021)
• Discourse on the Origin of Inequality Among Men by Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1755)
• Selfie: How the West became self-obsessed by Will Storr (Picador; 2018)
• "My Twisted World: The Story of Elliot Rodger" by Elliot Rodger (2014)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Sigal Samuel talks with scholars and authors Wesley Wildman and Kate Stockly about their book, Spirit Tech: The Brave New World of Consciousness Hacking and Enlightenment Engineering. They discuss high-tech tools like brain stimulation and neurofeedback-guided meditation that purport to enrich our spiritual lives, what possible risks they may pose to our psyches, and the ethical implications of technology-induced shortcuts to transformative meditative states. They also talk about whether such spiritual experiences are authentic rather than simulated, and whether brain-based spirit tech might help humans evolve as a species.

Host: Sigal Samuel (@SigalSamuel), Senior Reporter, Vox

Guests: Wesley Wildman (@WesleyWildman) and Kate Stockly (@KateJStockly), authors and researchers

References: 

• Spirit Tech: The Brave New World of Consciousness Hacking and Enlightenment Engineering by Wesley Wildman and Kate Stockly (Macmillan; 2021)
• SEMA (Sonication Enhanced Mindful Awareness) Lab, University of Arizona Center for Consciousness Studies (Dr. Jay Sanguinetti & Shinzen Young, co-directors)
• VR Church; Bishop D.J. Soto

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with climate scholar Andreas Malm about his book How to Blow Up A Pipeline. They discuss the failure of decades of protests and appeals to curb the actions of the fossil fuel industry. And they explore why, despite dire evidence like the increasingly common scourge of wildfires and disastrous weather events, the climate change movement hasn't moved beyond peaceful protest — and why Malm argues the time for escalation is now.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Andreas Malm, associate professor, Lund University

References: 

• How to Blow Up a Pipeline: Learning to Fight in a World on Fire by Andreas Malm (Verso; 2021)
• "Uganda, Tanzania, oil firms sign accords to build $3.5 billion pipeline" by Elias Biryabarema (Reuters; Apr. 11)
• "The Energy Future Needs Cleaner Batteries" by Drake Bennett (Bloomberg; Sept. 23)
• "Empirically grounded technology forecasts and the energy transition" by Rupert Way, Matthew Ives, Penny Mealy, and J. Doyne Farmer (INET Oxford Working Paper No. 2021-01; Sept. 14)
• "Fossilised Capital: Price and Profit in the Energy Transition" by Brett Christophers (New Political Economy; May 12)
• The Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson (Hachette; 2020)
• "The Myth of Sisyphus" by Albert Camus (1942)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox's Jamil Smith talks with author, activist, and filmmaker Valarie Kaur about her memoir See No Stranger and the Revolutionary Love Project. They discuss Kaur's personal experiences of the racism that followed 9/11, the idea of responding to violence and hatred with love, and why, two decades after 9/11, her project is more relevant than ever.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Valarie Kaur (@valariekaur), author, activist, and filmmaker

References: 

• See No Stranger: A Memoir and Manifesto of Revolutionary Love by Valarie Kaur (One World; 2020)
• Divided We Fall, dir. by Valarie Kaur (2008)
• "Indianapolis Sikh Community Mourns 4 Of Its Members Killed In Shooting" by Jeannette Muhammad (NPR; Apr. 18)
• "How 9/11 convinced Americans to buy, buy, buy" by Emily Stewart (Vox; Sept. 9)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices