The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox’s Sean Illing talks with David Wolpe, senior rabbi of the Sinai Temple in Los Angeles, about the role and nature of God, how religion and spirituality can address our modern problems, and how to make sense and meaning out of the suffering and pain we experience. This episode was recorded in the summer of 2020 and first appeared as part of the Future Perfect series The Way Through.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: David Wolpe (@RabbiWolpe), senior rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles

References: 

• "Religion without God: Alain de Botton on 'atheism 2.0'" by Sean Illing (Vox; Feb. 24, 2018)
• Making Loss Matter: Creating Meaning in Difficult Times by David Wolpe (Penguin Random House; 2000)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producers: Jackson Bierfeldt & Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Jamil Smith talks with acclaimed documentary filmmakers Ken and Sarah Burns. The father-daughter team discuss their latest documentary about The Greatest, Muhammad Ali, trying to say something new about a famous and already well-documented figure, how to tell the best story from 500 hours of raw footage, and what it's like when filmmaking centered around American history is the family business.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guests: Ken Burns (@KenBurns) & Sarah Burns (@sarah_l_burns), documentary filmmakers

References: 

• Muhammad Ali, a film by Ken Burns, Sarah Burns, & David McMahon (premieres Sept. 19)
• King of the World: Muhammad Ali and the Rise of an American Hero by David Remnick (Vintage; 1999)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Sean Illing talks with national security reporter Spencer Ackerman, author of the new book Reign of Terror. They discuss the staggering changes to our country in the 20 years since 9/11; the flaws, misdeeds, and injustices of the “war on terror” and the regimes that have executed it; and how America was led by the worst act of domestic terror on its own soil down a vicious, bellicose, and anti-democratic path to an authoritarian president like Trump.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Spencer Ackerman (@attackerman), national security reporter, author

References: 

• Reign of Terror: How the 9/11 Era Destabilized America and Produced Trump by Spencer Ackerman (Viking; 2021)
• "The Fight Over the 'Ground Zero Mosque' Was a Grim Preview of the Trump Era" by Tim Murphy (Mother Jones; Sept. 9)
• "Trump Ramped Up Drone Strikes in America's Shadow Wars" by Spencer Ackerman (The Daily Beast; Nov. 26, 2018)
• "The Lessons of Anwar al-Awlaki" by Tim Shane (New York Times Magazine; Aug. 27, 2015)
• Power Wars: The Relentless Rise of Presidential Authority and Secrecy by Charlie Savage (Hachette; 2015)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Aarti Shahani, host of the WBEZ Chicago podcast Art of Power and author of the memoir Here We Are, talks with Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-WA) about how 9/11 changed the relationship between immigrants and America. They discuss Jayapal's experience on 9/11 as a first-generation Indian migrant, as well as how her reaction to the attacks and their aftermath shaped her political trajectory and professional career as an activist — and, eventually, a member of Congress.

Host: Aarti Shahani (@aarti411), Host, Art of Power

Guest: Pramila Jayapal (@PramilaJayapal), U.S. Representative (D-WA)

References: 

• Use the Power You Have: A Brown Woman's Guide to Politics and Political Change by Pramila Jayapal (New Press; 2020)
• "Without A Country: Pramila Jayapal On The Problems Immigrants Face" by Madeline Ostrander (The Sun; Nov. 2008)
• Jama v. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, 543 US 335 (2005)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Zack Beauchamp talks with Columbia law professor Jamal Greene about his book How Rights Went Wrong: Why Our Obsession With Rights Is Tearing America Apart. They discuss how the US obsession with rights and their protections gives too much power to judges and the courts, makes it difficult for ordinary citizens to find reasonable solutions to legitimate problems, and has made this country's legal system not only nonsensical but dangerous.

Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Jamal Greene (@jamalgreene), Dwight Professor of Law, Columbia Law School

References: 

• How Rights Went Wrong: Why Our Obsession With Rights Is Tearing America Apart by Jamal Greene (HMH Books; 2021)
• "From Guns to Gay Marriage, How Did Rights Take Over Politics?" by Kelefa Sanneh (New Yorker; May 24)
• Lochner v. New York, 198 US 45 (1905)
• Masterpiece Cakeshop, Ltd. v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission, 584 US __ (2018)
• District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 US 570 (2008)
• "Texas's radical anti-abortion law, explained" by Ian Millhiser (Vox; Sept. 2)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox’s Sean Illing talks with professor and media researcher Nikki Usher about her new book News for the Rich, White, and Blue, which documents systemic problems in the ways journalists and institutions decide what counts as news and whom the news is for. They discuss racial, gender, and class biases in the industry, developing a “post-newspaper consciousness,” and the role of place in shaping our civic life.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Nikki Usher (@nikkiusher), senior fellow, Open Markets Institute Center for Liberty and Journalism; professor, University of Illinois

References: 

• News for the Rich, White, and Blue by Nikki Usher (Columbia University Press; 2021)
• Messengers of the Right: Conservative Media and the Transformation of American Politics by Nicole Hemmer (U. Penn Press; 2018)
• "Leslie Moonves on Donald Trump: 'It May Not Be Good for American, but It's Damn Good for CBS'" by Paul Bond (Hollywood Reporter; Feb. 29, 2016)
• Fulfillment: Winning and Losing in One-Click America by Alec MacGillis (Farrar, Straus and Giroux; 2021)
• Stuck in Place: Urban Neighborhoods and the End of Progress toward Racial Equality by Patrick Sharkey (U. Chicago Press; 2013)
• "The Media's Post-Advertising Future Is Also Its Past" by Derek Thompson (The Atlantic; Dec. 31, 2018)
• Prism Reports
• MLK50: Justice Through Journalism
• The 19th
• City Bureau

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Jamil Smith talks with author Clint Smith III about his book How the Word Is Passed, which documents the writer's personal journey visiting sites that embody the legacy of American slavery. They discuss the power of this re-confrontation, how to bridge the gaps in education and awareness of America's past, and the experience of Black writers in a nation that is "a web of contradictions."

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Clint Smith III (@ClintSmithIII), Staff writer, The Atlantic

References: 

• How the Word Is Passed: A Reckoning with the History of Slavery Across America by Clint Smith (Little, Brown; 2021)
• "Why Confederate Lies Live On" by Clint Smith (The Atlantic; May 10)
• "The lost neighborhood under New York's Central Park" by Ranjani Chakraborty (Vox; Jan. 20, 2020)
• "The Statue of Liberty was created to celebrate freed slaves, not immigrants, its new museum recounts" by Gillian Brockell (Washington Post; May 23, 2019)
• "No, the Civil War didn't erase slavery's harm" by W. Caleb McDaniel (Houston Chronicle; July 12, 2019)
• Nikole Hannah-Jones Issues Statement on Decision to Decline Tenure Offer at University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill and to Accept Knight Chair Appointment at Howard University (NAACP Legal Defense Fund; July 6)
• Crash Course: Black American History, hosted by Clint Smith

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Sean Illing talks with Adam Serwer, whose new book The Cruelty Is the Point documents the role of cruelty in American politics, the way it was weaponized by the GOP during the Trump administration, and how these tactics could continue to shape the future of America.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Adam Serwer (@AdamSerwer), staff writer, The Atlantic

References: 

• The Cruelty is the Point: The Past, Present, and Future of Trump's America by Adam Serwer (One World; 2021)
• "The Cruelty Is the Point" by Adam Serwer (The Atlantic; Oct. 3, 2018)
• "The Great Awokening" by Matt Yglesias (Vox; Apr. 1, 2019)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Benji Jones talks with author and environmental journalist Cynthia Barnett about seashells and her new book, The Sound of the Sea. They discuss the evolutionary function and human appeal of seashells, the surprising role shells played in ancient trade and commerce, and how climate change threatens the creatures that call them home.

Host: Benji Jones (@BenjiSJones), Environmental reporter, Vox

Guest: Cynthia Barnett (@cynthiabarnett), author

References: 

• “Seashells changed the world. Now they’re teaching us about the future of the oceans” by Benji Jones (Vox; Jul. 10)
• The Sound of the Sea: Seashells and the Fate of the Oceans by Cynthia Barnett (W.W. Norton; 2021)
• The Bailey-Matthews National Shell Museum (Sanibel Island, FL)
• Evolution & Escalation: An Ecological History of Life by Geerat J. Vermeij (Princeton; 1993)
• Cowrie Shells and Cowrie Money: A Global History by Bin Yang (Routledge; 2020)
• Scallops in motion (YouTube)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Sean Illing talks with comedian Bill Maher about the risks and challenges of political comedy today, free speech, and whether ideology undermines humor. They discuss how Maher — who's been out front on issues like animal rights and climate change — has become such a lightning rod for a certain species of progressive.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Bill Maher (@billmaher), comedian; host of Real Time with Bill Maher

References: 

• Real Time with Bill Maher on HBO and Youtube
• Bill Maher: stand-up tour schedule
• "10 Percent of Twitter users create 80 percent of tweets, study finds" by Ren LaForme (Poynter; Apr. 24, 2019)
• "Americans and 'Cancel Culture': Where Some See Calls for Accountability, Others See Censorship, Punishment" by Emily A. Vogels et al. (Pew Research; May 19)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Jamil Smith talks with former labor secretary, author, and social media gadfly Robert Reich about how our elected officials have fallen victim to the interests of the wealthy, what the pandemic exposed about our political and economic systems, and his vision of healthy civic education.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Robert Reich (@RBReich), Professor of Public Policy, UC Berkeley; co-founder, Inequality Media

References: 

• The System: Who Rigged It, How We Fix It by Robert Reich (Penguin Random House; 2021)
• "The 1994 Midterms: When Newt Gingrich Helped Republicans Win Big" by Lesley Kennedy (History; Oct. 9, 2018)
• The Common Good by Robert Reich (Penguin Random House; 2019)
• "Mississippi Justice" on the 1964 murder of Michael Schwerner, James Chaney, and Andrew Goodman (American Experience; Oct. 15, 2020)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Sean Illing talks with former Washington Post executive editor Marty Baron about the state of journalism. They discuss Baron's post-retirement reflections on both the Post and the profession at large, what's gone wrong with the way news gets made in this country, and how deep the problems we're facing really are.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Marty Baron (@PostBaron), former Executive Editor, Washington Post

References: 

• "Marty Baron, executive editor who oversaw dramatic Washington Post expansion, announces retirement" by Paul Farhi (Washington Post; Jan. 26)
• Spotlight, dir. Tom McCarthy (2015)
• "Has Anyone Seen the President? Michael Lewis goes to Washington in search of Trump and winds up watching the State of the Union with Steve Bannon" by Michael Lewis (Bloomberg; Feb. 9, 2018)
• "President Trump has made more than 20,000 false or misleading claims" by Glenn Kessler, Salvador Rizzo and Meg Kelly (Washington Post; July 13, 2020)
• "'You might not like it, but it's smart politics'" by Jay Rosen (PressThink; Sept. 28, 2020)
• "Bannon on Trump era technique: 'Flood the zone with sh*t'" (Brian Stelter on CNN's Reliable Sources; Nov. 1, 2020)
• "'Flood the zone with shit': How misinformation overwhelmed our democracy" by Sean Illing (Vox; Feb. 6, 2020)
• "Cash Flowed to Clinton Foundation Amid Russian Uranium Deal" by Jo Becker and Mike McIntire (New York Times; Apr. 23, 2015)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox culture contributor Anne Helen Petersen talks with writer Safy-Hallan Farah about the concept of 'cool.' They discuss different generations' approaches to determining what's cool, how the concept of 'cool' gets tangled up with class, capital, and consumption, and the ineffable process of cultivating taste in a digital world, where nothing's obscure and everything's available.

Host: Anne Helen Petersen (@annehelen), culture contributor, Vox

Guest: Safy-Hallan Farah (@SafyHallanFarah), writer and artist

References: 

• “The great American cool” by Safy-Hallan Farah (Vox; July 14)
• Distinction: A Social Critique of the Judgement of Taste by Pierre Bourdieu (tr. Richard Nice. Harvard; 1987)
• Let’s Talk About Love: Why Other People Have Such Bad Taste by Carl Wilson (Bloomsbury; 2014)
• “What Gen Z’ers Really Think of Millennials” by Diyora Shadijanova (VICE; June 18, 2020)
• @on_a_downward_spiral (Instagram)
• The Sum of Small Things: A Theory of the Aspirational Class by Elizabeth Currid-Halkett (Princeton; 2018)
• "Xanga, we hardly knew ye: Ode to the angstiest social network ever" by Kate Knibbs (Digital Trends; June 4, 2013)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Sean Illing talks with international politics professor and amateur ufologist Alex Wendt about why it's time to start thinking more seriously about the earth-shattering implications of discovering extraterrestrial life. They discuss the taboos against serious scientific inquiry into extraterrestrial existence, the US military's official UFO report and the inexplicable videos released by the Pentagon, and what the possible explanations might be for what's been seen.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Alexander Wendt, Professor of International Security and Political Science, The Ohio State University

References: 

• "The Pentagon Released U.F.O. Videos. Don't Hold Your Breath for a Breakthrough" by Alan Yuhas (New York Times; June 3)
• "Sovereignty and the UFO" by Alexander Wendt and Raymond Duvall (Political Theory; 2008)
• "Wanted: A Science of UFOs" (TEDx Columbus; February 2020)
• The Pentagon UFO Report: "Preliminary Assessment: Unidentified Aerial Phenomena" (June 25)
• "Experts Weigh In on Pentagon UFO Report" by Leonard David (Scientific American; June 8)
• "The Unexplained Phenomena of the U.F.O. Report" by Gideon Lewis-Kraus (The New Yorker; June 26)
• "Those amazing Navy UFO videos may have down-to-earth explanations, skeptics contend" by Andrew Dyer (San Diego Union-Tribune; May 29)
• Friedrich Nietzsche, Will to Power, Book One (1885-1886)

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This episode was made by: 

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• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Jamil Smith talks with Larry Krasner, the former civil rights attorney who's been district attorney of Philadelphia since 2018. They talk about the bold agenda of criminal justice reform that Krasner's office has been trying to implement, the recent upturn in violent crime across the country, and how to stare down the seemingly unshakable system and make real change happen.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Larry Krasner (@DA_LarryKrasner), District Attorney of Philadelphia

References: 

• Philly D.A. documentary miniseries (Independent Lens; 2021)
• "Krasner finds 'horrendous abuses of power' among cops, prosecutors in special report" by Katie Meyer (WHYY; June 15)
• "The day Philadelphia bombed its own people" by Lindsey Norward (Vox; Aug. 15, 2019)
• "The battle in Philly DA's Office: Conviction Integrity Unit report shows rocky path to reform" by Samantha Melamed (Philadelphia Inquirer; June 15)
• For the People: A Story of Justice and Power by Larry Krasner (Penguin Random House; 2021)

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• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Sean Illing talks with CNN's Fareed Zakaria about the global trend in democratic decline, and whether we should worry about America. They discuss why the Republican Party has become an existential threat to our constitutional system, whether he thinks Democrats are capable of rising to the challenge, and what reasons we have for optimism.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Fareed Zakaria (@FareedZakaria), Host of CNN's GPS, Washington Post columnist

References: 

• “Fareed Zakaria on the most important lesson of the Trump presidency” by Sean illing (Vox; Jan. 19, 2018)
• “The Rise of Illiberal Democracy” by Fareed Zakaria (Foreign Affairs; 1997)
• “The Biggest Threat to Democracy Is the GOP Stealing the Next Election” by Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt (The Atlantic; July 9)
• Parties and Politics in America by Clinton Rossiter (Cornell; 1960)
• “The Institutionalization of the U.S. House of Representatives” by Nelson Polsby (American Political Science Review; 1968)

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Vox's Sigal Samuel talks with world-renowned primatologist Jane Goodall about what six decades of studying chimpanzees has taught her about humans. They discuss the work people can do to protect animals and the environment, and the immense power of hope.

Host: Sigal Samuel (@SigalSamuel), Senior Reporter, Vox

Guest: Jane Goodall (@JaneGoodallInst), primatologist and author

References: 

• Miss Goodall and the Wild Chimpanzees (1965)
• Jane (dir. Brett Morgen; 2018)
• The Mentality of Apes by Wolfgang Köhler (1917; tr. by Ella Winter, 1925)
• Reason for Hope: A Spiritual Journey by Jane Goodall (with Phillip Berman; 2000)
• Jane Goodall Receives 2021 Templeton Prize
• The Book of Hope: A Survival Guide for Trying TImes by Jane Goodall and Douglas Abrams (Celadon; October 2021)

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• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Sean Illing talks with author Michael Pollan about his new book This Is Your Mind on Plants, why some societies condemn drugs that other societies condone, what will happen as the war on drugs draws to a close, and whether or not taking psychedelic drugs can improve humankind.

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Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Michael Pollan (@michaelpollan), author

References: 

• This Is Your Mind on Plants by Michael Pollan (Penguin; 2021)
• How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan (Penguin; 2018)
• The Natural Mind: A Revolutionary Approach to the Drug Problem by Andrew T. Weil (HMH; 2004)
• "Opium, Made Easy" by Michael Pollan (Harper's; Apr. 1997)
• "The intoxicating garden: Michael Pollan on growing psychoactive plants" by Michael Pollan (Financial Times; July 9)

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Vox's Jamil Smith speaks with novelist and author Kiese Laymon in a far-ranging conversation about Laymon's reacquiring the rights to his own books, the struggle of retelling our own stories, and the challenges of articulating American narratives that include all Americans accurately.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Kiese Laymon (@KieseLaymon), author

References: 

• "What we owe and are owed" by Kiese Laymon (Vox; May 17)
• Long Division by Kiese Laymon (Scribner; 2021)
• How to Slowly Kill Yourself and Others in America by Kiese Laymon (Scribner; 2020)
• Heavy: An American Memoir by Kiese Laymon (Scribner; 2018)
• "Why I Paid Tenfold to Buy Back the Rights for Two of My Books" by Kiese Laymon (Literary Hub; Nov. 10, 2020)
• "'RS Interview: Special Edition' With Ta-Nehisi Coates" by Jamil Smith (Rolling Stone; Nov. 20, 2020)
• "The Roots of Structural Racism Project: Twenty-First Century Racial Residential Segregation in the United States" by Stephen Menendian, Arthur Gailes, and Samir Gambhir (Othering & Belonging Institute; 2021)
• "Black churches taught us to forgive white people. We learned to shame ourselves" by Kiese Laymon (The Guardian; June 23, 2015)
• "Now Here We Go Again, We See the Crystal Visions" by Kiese Laymon (Vanity Fair; Nov. 19, 2020)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Sean Illing talks with Elizabeth Bruenig about how hard it is to forgive, how to balance our desire for justice with our humanity, and about how the age-old moral framework of forgiveness has met new challenges in the modern forum of social media.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Elizabeth Bruenig (@ebruenig), staff writer, The Atlantic

References: 

• “Not that Innocent” by Elizabeth Bruenig (The Atlantic; June 9)
• “The Man I Saw Them Kill” by Elizabeth Bruenig (New York Times; Dec. 17, 2020)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Here's a look ahead at what's to come for Vox Conversations. Vox's Sean Illing welcomes colleague Jamil Smith to the podcast as an additional regular host. They talk about what drew each of them into journalism, their shared craft of interviewing, and about what qualities make for great conversations. Plus, they share some of the ideas and upcoming guests they're looking forward to in the coming weeks.

Look for new episodes of Vox Conversations twice a week, starting Monday, July 12th.

Hosts: Sean Illing (@seanilling) & Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith)

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Now & Then is a new podcast from CAFE hosted by award-winning historians Heather Cox Richardson and Joanne Freeman. Every Tuesday, Heather and Joanne use their encyclopedic knowledge of US history to bring the past to life. Together, they make sense of the week in news by discussing the people, ideas, and events that got us here today.

Learn more: https://cafe.com/now-and-then/

Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6wDS3Y2t0RyQ3ncCUxiNs6?si=nx7w7exNRZ-AWHLv9T1qZg&dl_branch=1

Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1567665859

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Relationships journalist and podcast host Andrea Silenzi talks with Logan Ury, behavioral scientist-turned-dating coach, and author of How to Not Die Alone. They discuss the decision-making that gets in the way of our dating lives, the case for finding a life partner, and what dating looks like in a post-pandemic, app-driven world.

Host: Andrea Silenzi (@andreasilenzi), podcast host 

Guest: Logan Ury (@loganury), author; director of relationship science, Hinge

References: 

• How to Not Die Alone by Logan Ury (2021; Simon & Schuster)
• Irrational Labs
• Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment and How It Can Help You Find — and Keep — Love by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller (2010; TarcherPerigee)
• Why Oh Why, podcast

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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In this special edition of Vox Conversations in honor of the Juneteenth holiday, Vox race reporter Fabiola Cineas spoke with author and podcast host Ibram X. Kendi before a virtual audience about the big ideas around being antiracist. They discussed where we are after a year protesting racism and police brutality, Kendi's approach to defining and fighting racism, and how we all can work to enact change.

Host: Fabiola Cineas (@FabiolaCineas), Reporter, Vox 

Guest: Ibram X. Kendi (@DrIbram), Author; director and founder of the Boston University Center for Antiracist Research

References: 

• Be Antiracist with Ibram X. Kendi (Pushkin)
• How To Be An Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi (One World; 2019)
• “Juneteenth, explained” by Fabiola Cineas (June 16; Vox)
• The Sum of Us by Heather McGhee (One World; 2021)
• Dying of Whiteness by Jonathan Metzl (Basic Books; 2019)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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The internet was first conceived as a tool to promote free expression, to foster and enliven debate, and to strengthen democratic ideals. But it didn’t quite work out that way. In this episode, Vox’s Zack Beauchamp talks with Steven Feldstein, author of The Rise of Digital Repression, about how governing regimes use digital technology to repress their citizens; the threats posed by surveillance, disinformation, and censorship; and how democracies can backslide into authoritarianism.

Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Steven Feldstein (@SteveJFeldstein), Author; senior fellow, Carnegie Endowment

References: 

• The Rise of Digital Repression: How Technology is Reshaping Power, Politics, and Resistance by Steven Feldstein (Oxford University Press; 2021)
• “Maria Ressa: Philippine journalist found guilty of cyber libel” (June 15, 2020; BBC)
• “[Senator Leila] De Lima’s four-year struggle in prison” by Vince Ferreras (Mar 16; CNN Philippines)
• “Sandvine Technology Used to Censor the Web in More Than a Dozen Nations” by Ryan Gallagher (Oct. 8, 2020; Bloomberg)
• “Social media is rotting democracy from within” by Zack Beauchamp (Jan. 22, 2019; Vox)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox’s Dylan Matthews talks with historian Bruce Levine about his book Thaddeus Stevens: Civil War Revolutionary and Fighter for Racial Justice. They discuss how Stevens — a person with anti-racist ideals so far outside the mainstream of his time — managed to be so effective, how he developed those ideals in the first place, and how to continue his fight today.

Host: Dylan Matthews (@dylanmatt), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Bruce Levine, Author; Professor (emeritus) of History, University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign

References: 

• Thaddeus Stevens: Civil War Revolutionary and Fighter for Racial Justice by Bruce Levine (Simon & Schuster; 2021)
• Lincoln (2012; directed by Steven Spielberg; written by Tony Kushner, based on Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns-Goodwin)
• The Birth of a Nation (1915; directed by D.W. Griffith; written by D.W. Griffith and Frank E. Woods)
• Profiles in Courage by John F. Kennedy (1956)
• The Fall of the House of Dixie: The Civil War and the Social Revolution that Transformed the South by Bruce Levine (2014; Random House)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Emily Stewart talks with Janelle Jones, chief economist at the Labor Department, about what's actually going on with the US economy — and who are the workers most dramatically affected by the pandemic. They discuss the tasks ahead in an economic recovery, who should receive the most help, and how to put policies in place that do more than just return to the status quo.

Host: Emily Stewart (@EmilyStewartM), Senior Reporter, Vox

Guest: Janelle Jones (@janellecj), Chief Economist, Department of Labor

References: 

• “U.S. Labor Shortage? Unlikely. Here’s Why” by Heidi Shierholz (May 4, The Commons blog, Initiative for Public Discourse)
• “Lumber mania is sweeping North America” by Emily Stewart (May 3, Vox)
• “Black workers have made no progress in closing earning gaps with white men since 2000” by Elise Gould, Janelle Jones, and Zane Mokhiber (Sept. 12, 2018, Working Economics Blog)
• “The U.S. economy could use some ‘overheating’” by Josh Bivens (Jan. 14, Working Economics Blog)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox’s Sean Illing talks with Max Linsky, host of the new podcast 70 Over 70, which features intimate conversations with people over 70 years old. They discuss Max’s relationship with his aging father, the sometimes desperate search for wisdom, and the contradictions inherent in embracing life, while accepting the inevitable reality of death.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox 

Guest: Max Linsky (@maxlinsky), Host, 70 Over 70 podcast; co-founder, Pineapple Street Studios

References: 

• 70 Over 70 on Apple Podcasts 
• Arthur Schopenhauer, “On the Sufferings of the World” (1913)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Anna North talks with author Olivia Laing about her book Everybody: A Book About Freedom. Through the surprisingly connected lives of artists, activists, psychoanalysts, and sexologists, they discuss the different ways our bodies are persecuted, imprisoned, and policed — and the ways our physical selves can be liberated.

Host: Anna North (@annanorthtweets), Senior Reporter, Vox

Guest: Olivia Laing, Author

References: 

• Everybody: A Book About Freedom (Picador, 2021)
• The Lonely City (Picador, 2017)
• “Wilhelm Reich: the man who invented free love” by Christopher Turner (The Guardian, July 8, 2011)
• Susan Sontag, Illness as Metaphor (1978)
• “Overlooked No More: Ana Mendieta, a Cuban Artist Who Pushed Boundaries” by Monica Castillo (New York Times, Sept. 19, 2018)
• Agnes Martin, 1912–2004 (MoMA)
• Philip Guston, 1913–1980 (MoMA)
• “Cloudbusting” by Kate Bush (1985), music video dir. by Julian Doyle

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Sean Illing talks with Sarah Marshall, co-host of the You're Wrong About podcast, about the Satanic Panic of the early 1980s. They discuss America's penchant for moral panics, why the country latches onto outlandish stories, and what the Satanic panic and its echoes today say about America's collective psyche.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling) Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Sarah Marshall (@Remember_Sarah) Author; host of the You're Wrong About podcast

References: 

• You’re Wrong About, “The Satanic Panic” (May 2018)
• “Why Satanic Panic never really ended” by Aja Romano (Vox, March 31)
• “Michelle Remembers and the Satanic Panic” by Megan Goodwin (The Revealer, Feb. 4)
• “There’s a bear in the woods” (Ronald Reagan campaign ad, 1984)
• The McMartin preschool trial
• “Baseless Wayfair child-trafficking theory spreads online” by Amanda Seitz and Ali Swenson (AP, July 2020)
• The Mann Act (a.k.a. “White-Slave Traffic Act of 1910”)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Mounsey
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox's Dylan Matthews talks with Julia Galef, host of the podcast Rationally Speaking, and author of The Scout Mindset: Why Some People See Things Clearly and Others Don't. They discuss how we can overcome the ways our own minds deceive us and change the way we think to make more rational decisions.

Host: Dylan Matthews (@dylanmatt), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Julia Galef (@juliagalef), Author; host of Rationally Speaking podcast

References: 

• The Scout Mindset: Why Some People See Things Clearly and Others Don't by Julia Galef (Apr. 2021)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Mounsey
• VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Vox environmental reporter Benji Jones talks with journalist and author Michelle Nijhuis about her book Beloved Beasts: Fighting for Life in an Age of Extinction. They talk about the history of the conservation movement and its many characters, the standout successes and ugly truths, and why, even with millions of species under threat, there's still reason to hope.

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Climate writer and Vox contributor David Roberts talks with Jessika Trancik, Associate Professor at the Institute for Data, Systems, and Society at M.I.T. They discuss many aspects of the vast undertaking to remake our world in response to the realities of climate change. They survey the technologies and innovations that are being deployed in this effort, and talk about what sorts of policy initiatives would be best-suited for the road ahead. While we might feel like our future will be full of sacrifices we're asked to make, Trancik explains that now is the time to shape a world in which we could live more equitably, efficiently, and comfortably.

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Writer and Vox contributor Anne Helen Petersen talks with poet and novelist Patricia Lockwood about the experience of being extremely online. They discuss Lockwood's book No One Is Talking About This, writing and religious upbringing, the parts of life perfectly suited to the internet, and the human experiences that glitch the system.

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Vox's Worldly host Zack Beauchamp talks with author and New Statesman editor Emily Tamkin about the life and legacy of George Soros. How did a Hungarian billionaire philanthropist become the No. 1 boogeyman of right-wing nationalist movements on both sides of the Atlantic? They unpack the meaning of the smear campaign against him, and the inherent contradictions of a wealthy man trying to use his influence to make societies more democratic.

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Unexplainable is a new podcast from Vox about everything we don’t know. Each week, the team look at the most fascinating unanswered questions in science and the mind-bending ways scientists are trying to answer them. New episodes drop every Wednesday. 

Learn more: vox.com/unexplainable 

Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unexplainable/id1554578197

Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0PhoePNItwrXBnmAEZgYmt?si=Y3-2TFfDT8qHkfxMjrJL2g

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Aarti Shahani, NPR journalist and host of WBEZ podcast Art of Power, talks with investigative journalist and author Alfredo Corchado about the US-Mexico border. Trump's actions created a new urgency for the political establishment to better understand the border, and Biden's challenges there continue to grow. Corchado, a former child farmworker and a Mexican-American with identities on both sides of the border wall, discusses the reality, politics, history, and future of the border.

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Vox's Sigal Samuel talks with the author of Wintering, Katherine May, about the lessons we can learn during life's darkest seasons. They talk about our long collective pandemic winter, about how times of retreat can allow for personal and political transformation, and about how we might carry new wisdom with us as we emerge into spring.

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Vox's Sean Illing talks with the author of The Sum of Us, Heather McGhee, about the costs of racism in America — for everyone. They discuss what we all lose by buying into the zero-sum paradigm that progress for some has to come at the expense of others, and why the left needs to reframe the country's race problem and persuade the other side with a more compelling story.

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Vox book critic Constance Grady talks with Vox gender identities reporter and novelist Anna North about Anna's new book Outlawed. They discuss creating an alternative history, reimagining the Western, and having fun with the usually fraught topics of gender and identity.

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The Undefeated's culture critic Soraya Nadia McDonald talks with Emmy Award-winning television writer and producer Cord Jefferson. They discuss the transition from journalism to TV, delving into Jefferson's move from Gawker to writing for hit shows like Succession, The Good Place, and Watchmen. They also touch on what needs to change about TV writer's rooms, and what our current era of streaming giants and tech barons means for news and pop culture.

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Vox's Sean Illing talks about the the little-known history of psychedelics and spirituality in the Western world with Brian Muraresku, author of The Immortality Key. What role did psychedelic drugs play in the rise and spread of Christianity — and could they save the church today?

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NPR journalist, memoirist, and host of the upcoming WBEZ podcast The Art of Power Aarti Shahani talks with Cecilia Muñoz, a former aide to Obama and part of Biden's transition team. It's a conversation about immigration policy reform and the challenges ahead for President Biden — and for a country wrestling with changing demographics, racism, and its history.

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Vox's Dylan Matthews talks with author and Revolutions podcaster Mike Duncan about what history can tell us about the insurrection at the US Capitol. Is America experiencing a true moment of revolution? So many republics throughout history have crumbled - could this one be next?

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Vox's Sean Illing talks to Yale professor and author Jason Stanley about why American democracy provides such fertile soil for fascism, how Donald Trump demonstrated how easy it was for our country to flirt with a fascist future and what we can do about it.

Correction 2/1: Professor Stanley suggested in this conversation that West Virginia declined to expand the Medicaid option in 2013. In fact, the state did expand the program and has gradually added enrollment since 2013.

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Ezra Klein is joined by Evan Osnos, a staff writer at the New Yorker and the author of Joe Biden: The Life, the Run, and What Matters Now to discuss our new president.

President Biden has been in national politics for almost five decades. And so, people tend to understand the era of Joe Biden they encountered first — the centrist Senate dealmaker, or the overconfident foreign policy hand, or the meme-able vice president, or the grieving, grave father. But Biden, more so than most politicians, changes. And it’s how he changes, and why, that’s key to understanding his campaign, and his likely presidency. 

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Vox columnist Anne Helen Petersen talks with sociologist Rachel Sherman about her research into the anxieties of wealthy people and their desire to be seen as "middle class." Sherman's work exposes the flawed stories we tell ourselves about who qualifies as middle class and who qualifies as "good" in the US.

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Recode’s Peter Kafka speaks with New York Times’s Tech columnist Kevin Roose about big tech’s power and responsibility - and whether it is going to have accountability.

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New York magazine's Washington correspondent Olivia Nuzzi spent the past four years covering the Trump White House. In this inaugural episode of Vox Conversations, Nuzzi talks to guest host Sam Sanders, host of NPR's It’s Been a Minute, about the perils of anonymous sourcing, some unexpected job hazards (self-loathing), and why Trump didn’t ultimately create, but instead activated, the crowd of insurgents that breached the Capitol last week.

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How do you feel right now? Excited to listen to your favorite podcast? Anxious about the state of American politics? Annoyed by my use of rhetorical questions?

These questions seem pretty straightforward. But as my guest today, psychologist Lisa Feldman Barrett, points out there is a lot more to emotion than meets the mind.

Barrett is a superstar in her field. She’s a professor of psychology at Northeastern University, holds appointments at Harvard Medical School and Massachusetts General Hospital, and has received various prestigious awards for her pioneering research on emotion. Her most recent book How Emotions Are Made: The Secret Life of the Brain argues that emotions are not biologically hardwired into our brains but constructed by our minds. In other words, we don’t merely feel emotions — we actively create them.

Barrett’s work has potentially radical implications. If we take her theory seriously, it follows that the ways we think about our daily emotional states, diagnose illnesses, interact with friends, raise our children, and experience reality all need some serious adjusting, if not complete rethinking.

If you enjoyed this episode, you should check out:

A mind-expanding conversation with Michael Pollan

The cognitive cost of poverty (with Sendhil Mullainathan)

Will Storr on why you are not yourself 

A mind-bending, reality-warping conversation with John Higgs

Book recommendations: 

Naming the Mind by Kurt Danzinger 

The Island of Knowledge by Marcelo Gleiser 

The Accidental Species by Henry Gee

Sense and Nonsense by Kevin L. Laland

Credits:

Producer and Editor - Jeff Geld

Researcher - Roge Karma

Recording engineer - Cynthia Gil

Field engineer - Joseph Fridman

The Ezra Klein Show is a production of the Vox Media Podcast Network

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