Bourbon Pursuit

On this Whiskey Quickie by Bourbon Pursuit, we review the 13th edition of the Parker's Heritage Collection. This 8 year old heavy char rye whiskey comes in at 105 proof and $149.99 MSRP.

DISCLAIMER: The whiskey in this review was provided to us at no cost courtesy of the spirit producer. We were not compensated by the spirit producer for this review. This is our honest opinion based on what we tasted. Please drink responsibly.

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It’s a dawn of a new day. The secondary market is scrambling to find a new home and we look at the impact this has on bourbon growth. MGP stock prices took a major hit after reports came out that aged stock hasn’t been selling and we look at new competitors in the bulk contract game. Missouri is putting itself on the map having a legally designated bourbon, but are there ulterior motives? With Knob Creek re-instating the 9 year age statement, does it make it one of the best values in bourbon? With all of these coming together, how are brands being perceived? All this on Bourbon Community Roundtable #35

Show Notes:

• Reddit AMA with the Russell’s https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/cme0nf/hey_reddit_im_wild_turkey_master_distiller_eddie/
• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about drinking bourbon how you want.
• Let's discuss the fallout of the secondary market on Facebook.
• How do you think the secondary groups will shift?
• What do you think of the MGP stock plummeting? https://www.barrons.com/articles/mgp-ingredients-stock-aged-whiskey-sales-earnings-51564610232
• Is MPG now competing with new distillate like Willet?
• Do they still have higher age bourbon stock?
• Let's talk about the new Missouri rules for bourbon. http://whiskyadvocate.com/missouri-bourbon-whiskey-style/
• Do you think this will happen in other states?
• What do you think of Knob Creek restoring their 9-Year Age Statement? http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2019/06/knob-creek-to-restore-9-year-age.html
• Are Knob Creek picks the best value in bourbon?
• Is the market oversaturated with Knob Creek picks?
• Have you seen variances in Knob Creek single barrel picks?
• How do you perceive brands when they raise prices?
• Thanks to Blake from bourbonr.com, Jordan from breakingbourbon.com, and Sara from barbelleblog.com for joining.

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On this Whiskey Quickie by Bourbon Pursuit, we review Old Forester 2019 Birthday Bourbon. This 11 year old bourbon is 105 proof and priced at $99.99 MSRP.

DISCLAIMER: The whiskey in this review was provided to us at no cost courtesy of the spirit producer. We were not compensated by the spirit producer for this review. This is our honest opinion based on what we tasted. Please drink responsibly.

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Last week, CNN reported that Facebook and Instagram are shutting down all peer to peer sales of alcohol. This wasn’t a joke. In the span of 72 hours, all of the major bourbon groups were wiped out. The secondary market is synonymous with Facebook. The growth of bourbon’s popularity can be attributed to it as well by those that are in it to flip bottles. Owen Powell didn’t create the first group to buy, sell, and trade bourbon, but he certainly created the largest. The Bourbon Secondary Market group is no longer around on Facebook, but the story of how it was built, the ways discussions were moderated, and how it served as a data gold mine for valuations is told. We uncover the progression of the group from a few hundred members to reaching over 50,000, what leads to certain distilleries being banned on a black market, and if the secondary market will actually end if Facebook groups cease to exist.

Show Notes:

• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Parker's Heritage Collection.
• How did you get into bourbon?
• Talk about the growth of the group. Were there any growing pains?
• How many members are in the group?
• How many admins do you have?
• What do you look for in admins?
• Why do people have animosity towards admins in these groups?
• Let's talk about the rules in the group.
• How did the secondary raffle site become its own thing?
• How does a dispute come about?
• What do all the acronyms mean?
• What is the best way to handle a dispute?
• Have you ever had accusations of counterfeits?
• How do you handle that kind of situation?
• Why did you do an open group?
• Do you keep a log of all the transactions?
• You’ve banned a few distilleries. How are rules like that determined?
• Why do you run the group even though you don't get paid?
• What do you do when someone prices something too high?
• What about monthly dues?
• Do you think groups could end on Facebook?

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On this Whiskey Quickie by Bourbon Pursuit, we review Old Fitz Bottled-in-Bond Spring 2019 release. This 13 year old bourbon is 100 proof and priced at $129.99 MSRP.

DISCLAIMER: The whiskey in this review was provided to us at no cost courtesy of the spirit producer. We were not compensated by the spirit producer for this review. This is our honest opinion based on what we tasted. Please drink responsibly.

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Chris Morris and Elizabeth McCall are no strangers to the show so we're excited to have them back on again. This time, we explore the controversial topic of “what is a master distiller?”. How is a title like that earned through years of service? How is Brown-Forman laying the foundation for Elizabeth to take over when Chris is ready to retire? We also talk about barrels from their cooperage, the influence of char on their whiskey, and this week's Whiskey Quickie, the King of Kentucky.

Show Notes:

• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about rapid aging.
• Lawsuit challenges out-of-state retailers' ability to sell, deliver and ship alcohol to Kentucky consumers - https://www.wdrb.com/news/lawsuit-challenges-out-of-state-retailers-ability-to-sell-deliver/article_4881080e-acc4-11e9-9dbc-8b443dc97b9e.html
• Join us on barrel selections and see what other perks await. Support the podcast at https://www.patreon.com/bourbonpursuit
• Come drink some beer with us at 3rd Turn Brewing on July 26th from 4-7pm https://www.facebook.com/events/327452114804983/
• Elizabeth, tell us about your role.
• Do different Master Distiller's have different styles?
• Is there a Master Distiller training manual?
• What do you think of everyday people becoming Master Distillers without significant training?
• What is a Master Distiller today?
• How do you know a bourbon will be good once it's aged?
• What flavors or notes do you consider defects?
• Are we going to see more single malts come out of Brown-Forman?
• Why is there such a fascination with making malts work?
• Tell us about the latest Distiller's Select?
• Are there two different char levels on the double double oaked?
• Talk about owning your own cooperage.
• Tell us about King of Kentucky.
• Why did you chose this label?
• Is there any pressure on Elizabeth to live up to Chris?
• How did you feel when you became a Master Distiller?
• Recorded live at Down One Bourbon Bar in Louisville, KY.

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On this Whiskey Quickie by Bourbon Pursuit, we review Brown-Forman's King of Kentucky 2019 release. This 15 year old single barrel bourbon is available only in Kentucky, comes in at 131 proof, and a $249.99 MSRP. Let us know what you think in the comments.

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We talk about private barrel selections being the new unicorns on this show all the time. But it begs the question, are we seeing so many private picks that the market is oversaturated? It seems like every week there is a new barrel in our city for sale, FOMO about some sweet sticker, or the secondary market has a crazy valuation on a normal single barrel selection. We examine all the components that go into getting single barrels such as the amount of influence from distributor reps, the amount of available barrels at the distilleries, and if you would buy from a big chain vs a small independent store. Will there ever be enough bourbon to go around and not over bloat the market? We’ll find out.

Show Notes:

• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Portugal.
• What got you into to buying private barrel picks?
• What's the landscape of private picks in DC?
• With the increase in stores wanting private picks, are some stores going to get shut out of the program?
• Do you think distilleries should be taking care of the bigger accounts over the smaller stores that started doing picks earlier?
• Is there a bias towards certain states?
• Would you want to buy a private barrel pick from a big box liquor store?
• Does the local sales rep make a difference?
• What about restaurant picks?
• Do you think distilleries are running out of barrels for their private barrel programs?
• Is the market flooded with private selections?
• What could distilleries do to give one store an advantage over another?
• Let's discuss stickers. Do they influence your purchase?
• Should stores slow down barrel picks?
• Why are some people spending so much for private picks on the secondary market?

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On this Whiskey Quickie by Bourbon Pursuit, we review Peerless Distilling Company's 3 Year Old Rye Whiskey. This single barrel rye whiskey came from the gift shop at 107 proof and a $99 MSRP.

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A warehouse disaster is a large concern for the bourbon industry, but some people in the community make jokes and laugh at the situation. Should this be considered normal? Heaven Hill phased out their 6 Year Bottled in Bond product that was a true bargain brand to many bourbon consumers and launched a very similar product with a 3X price increase. Was this a good move by Heaven Hill? Are they competing in a high price bracket? Did they just cannibalize their own products? Is this the first #KentuckySnub? We tackle all this and more on Bourbon Community Roundtable #34.

Show Notes:

• This week Ryan talks about launching a bourbon brand.
• Look for a new segment called Whiskey Quickie launching next week.
• Brian Harra’s Sazerac Brands v. Peristyle: Bourbon History Matters as a Matter of Law - https://brianhaaracom.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/haara-bourbon-history-matters-as-a-matter-of-law-ky-jeanrl-2019.pdf
• Jim Beam Warehouse Fire
• Heaven Hill 7-Year Bottled-in-Bond
• Was it the right move to discontinue 6-Year BIB and relaunch with 7-Year at a higher price point?
• Do you think this product competes with the Woodford and Knob Creek price point?
• Is Heaven Hill competing against themselves?
• Why wouldn't Heaven Hill launch in Kentucky on day one?
• How do you best support retailers that elevate prices for hard to find bottles?

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If you're a fan of good bourbon, then you're likely a fan of good food too. Today's guest is the intersection of those two, combining a culinary background with his love for the south and, of course, bourbon. You may know Chef Newman Miller from his appearance on Top Chef season 16. He's also the Executive Chef and Owner of Star Hill Provisions at Maker's Mark and the Harrison Smith House in Bardstown. We talk about his culinary background, where he played a part in the creation of the McDonald's McGriddle and behind the scenes at Top Chef. His deep dive into bourbon was influenced by Drew Kulsveen of Willett. So if you're a wannabe chef or if you're an occasional TV dinner kind of person, this episode is going to have something for you.

Show Notes:

• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about 4th of July.
• What was Padma from Top Chef like in real life?
• What was it like when you heard about being on Top Chef?
• Why do you think they chose Kentucky for Top Chef?
• What did the chefs think of being in smaller towns?
• Was it challenging to cook for everyone?
• What's a banana croquet?
• How cool was it to have the chefs create versions of your dishes?
• How hard is it to judge fellow chefs?
•  Tell us about your relationship with Rob Samuels. Was there a pep talk before the show?
• Were you relieved once it was over?
• How did you get into food?
• Did you approach Maker's about making food there?
• Will some of the main food distributors come down to Maker's?
• What are your biggest challenges?
• How hard was it to convince the locals to try higher end food?
• Talk about meeting Drew Kulsveen and how you got into the bourbon community.
• Where did your passion for bourbon come from?
• Besides Maker's, do you have a special bourbon that you love?
• Tell us about your connection to the McGriddle.
• Where does bourbon and food intersect for you?
• Talk about Star Hill Provisions.
• How do you see the future unfolding for the bourbon/tourism industry in Bardstown/Kentucky?
• Why did you name the restaurant Harrison/Smith House?

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Today’s guest needs no introduction. He is one the most iconic living figures in bourbon today. He’s been on episodes 77, 105, and 175. He’s even got his own personalized scooter to get him around the distillery and that is Jimmy Russell. This podcast touches on his early years and how he was selected to become the next master distiller. He talks about the changes he saw at the distillery as it exchanged hands throughout the years. Also, we get to hear the story on the birth of Rare Breed and his opinion on chill filtering vs non-chill filtering debate.

Show Notes:

• The history of JW Dant and Log Still Distillery - https://www.distillerytrail.com/blog/j-w-dant-investing-12-million-to-restart-historic-distillery-in-the-bourbon-capital-of-the-world/
• Heaven Hill 7 Year Bottled in Bond Launch - https://www.facebook.com/bourbonpursuit/posts/2640636035998401?__tn__=K-R
• Leave us a review! https://link.chtbl.com/LeaveAReview
• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about speaking at a Total Wine event in Atlanta.
• Does limestone water make a difference in bourbon?
• How long does it take to cook bourbon?
• Can you burn the mash?
• When did you start at the distillery?
• What roles have you had at the distillery?
• What Master Distiller trained you?
• How did he decide he wanted to train you?
• What were the early years like?
• Was there anything from prohibition that affected the distillery operations when you started?
• Will you all need to increase capacity soon?
• What was it like when you first started traveling to talk about Wild Turkey?
• What were your biggest challenges on the road?
• Were you nervous when you first went out on the road?
• Were you happy traveling and talking to the consumers?
• What was the name of the distillery before Wild Turkey?
• What was it like to distill then ship the bourbon away?
• Tell us about the other former Lawrenceburg distilleries.
• What was it like when you were out on the road? Do you think it helped grow the brand?
• Do you prefer to travel or be at the distillery?
• Tell us about Kentucky Spirit and Rare Breed.
• How often are you going through and sampling barrels?
• Do you have a favorite warehouse?
• Do you have a favorite floor?
• Why do you only have 7 floors?
• What innovations have you seen throughout your time in the bourbon industry?
• Talk about your rye mashbill.
• What do you think of non-distilling producers?
• Tell us about the inception of Rare Breed.
• Do you like the barrel char flavor?
• What do you think of chill vs. non-chill filtered?
• What kind of steak do you like?
• How much time do you spend at the visitor's center?
• What do you drive most of the time?
• Are you excited to have Bruce at the distillery?
• Did you ever want to own the distillery?
• Why do whiskey consumers get enthralled with age statements?
• Any life advice for younger generations?

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You can't discount the impact marijuana is currently having on states that have legalized recreational use. There's now more research and funding looking at the impact of marijuana not only from a medicinal use, but also economic footprint that funds many city and state government initiatives. Of course, liquor industries are curious and want to make sure this doesn't hurt sales. Will it? I don't know, but today's guests do. David Ozgo, Chief Economist at Distilled Spirits Council and Clay Busch, Vice President of Heavy Grass join the show to talk from their respective sides. Those advocating widespread legalization helps everyone, and those taking precautions for its hurting sales of the spirits business.

Show Notes:

• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Kentucky state pride.
• What's your connection to bourbon?
• Give us some background on your organizations.
• Do you encourage smoking weed to harness creativity?
• Is there a concern from the Distilled Spirits Council with the combination of marijuana and spirits?
• Let's discuss consuming responsibly.
• Should brands try to align themselves with marijuana?
• Tell us about the research the government is doing on marijuana?
• How would spirit companies use marijuana in their portfolio?
• What is CBD compared to marijuana?
• Do you think marijuana has an impact on the spirits industry?
• Are people worried about marijuana impacting spirits?
• How do national companies handle marijuana use with employees that live in legal states?
• What do you think about experimentation of marijuana in spirits?
• What is your goal in regards to marijuana?
• What are your thoughts on hemp?
• Are they worried about the spirit or their pocket books?
• How can you pair marijuana with whiskey?

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A jam packed episode. The first half is focused on the the largest Facebook group known for buying, selling, and trading bourbon and it’s encounter with Facebook staff about rule changes. We cover the news and share the information as it’s presented. In the second half of the show, we are joined by Marianne Eaves as she discusses her departure from Castle & Key and what’s on the horizon for her next adventure. This episode has a little bit of everything. Oh yeah, and a teaser about marijuana with bourbon which you can look forward to hearing more next week.

Show Notes:

• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Bottled-In-Bond and Bernie Lubbers.
• The Next Phase of the Bourbon Secondary Market. Facebook is cracking down.
• What will be the next iteration of the secondary market?
• When did you get the news and how did you feel about it?
• Will this start more segmented smaller groups?
• Are there any other platforms where the secondary market could exist?
• How does one have bourbon as a hobby and ensure that he or she is not becoming an alcoholic in the process?
• Are Sober Bars going to become a thing?
• What's new with Marianne Eaves?
• What was the response from other companies to you leaving Castle and Key?
• Are you interested in other spirits?
• Have you been trained in other spirits?
• What's your favorite style of gin?
• What's next for you?
• What do you all think about marijuana infused bourbon?

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Peggy Noe Stevens is an encyclopedia of great information about many bourbon brands. You may not know it, but she's one of the biggest influencers behind many of the great distillery experiences while on the bourbon trail and outside of the state too. Peggy is a pioneer in driving diversity with her leadership behind the Bourbon Women organization and involvement with women-led panels. Peggy is an incredibly talented person that has shaped the industry from being in front of people leading them at bourbon tastings and crafting one of kind experiences behind the scenes.

Show Notes:

• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Wikipedia.
• What is an experiential expert?
• Who have you consulted for these experiences?
• What value do you bring to these experiences?
• What was it like working at Woodford Reserve?
• How do you elevate the experience?
• How do balance the history with modern day innovation?
• Explain the difference between someone coming up the ranks in the bourbon industry vs. someone just taking it.
• What was it like when you were named the first female master taster?
• Do you feel like the media is better today that back then?
• What about diversity in the whiskey industry?
• Was Lincoln Henderson your Mr. Miyagi?
• What are you doing today with this master taster role?
• Let's discuss Bourbon Women.
• What was your inspiration for Bourbon Women?
• Tell us about the growth of Bourbon Women.
• How do you market the organization?
• What type of members do you have?
• What are visitors looking for in a distillery experience?
• How do you deal with a difficult person in the hospitality industry?
• How did you help pioneer the Bourbon Trail?

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This guest gets more TV face time than The Bachelorette. He has built up a big fan base among weather geeks and now Jim Cantore of The Weather Channel joins Bourbon Pursuit to talk about his career, braving crazy storms, and how weather patterns and global warming are affecting today’s bourbon stocks. We also get to hear a funny story shared by Jim and Fred as they were drilling barrels of whiskey together at Jack Daniels. This episode gives you a look into Jim’s everyday life and how bourbon became a part of it.

Show Notes:

• The Curation Desk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fSTu8zbAwM
• Chuck Cowdery’s Top Bourbon List https://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-best-bourbons-ever.html
• Pursuit Series Episodes 010 and 011 https://pursuitspirits.com/
• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about whiskey decanters.
• How did you get involved in weather?
• When did you start drinking whiskey?
• After you first started drink bourbon, what were you seeking out in the store or bar?
• What's the strangest thing anyone has said to you in public?
• Do you get annoyed that people associate you with disasters?
• Do you get a high being in bad weather?
• Do you ever get panicked in certain weather situations?
• When you celebrate a job well done, what do you drink?
• Tell us about your interest in cars.
• Was deflategate real?
• Can your joints hurt from weather changes?
• Does increased rain impact a microclimate? Waters are rising around distilleries. How will it impact the warehouses?
• Will the rain affect the white oak trees?
• Do you predict any climate shifts in the Kentucky area that could affect bourbon?
• Tell us about the time you picked out a barrel with Fred.
• How does humidity affect barrels?
• Jim Cantore Website/Social https://jimcantore.tv/

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What if there was a legalized secondary market? Some may argue there is with new vintage laws being introduced around the country, but then there is the massive flood of online marketplaces that don't have any regulation whatsoever. It's a touchy subject because anyone that is really into bourbon, has seemed to find their way into these corners of the web. And lets be honest, most of us have had to do some sort of buy, sell, or trade to get bottles that we desire. It's the nature of the game and this show looks at the premise of if you could build your own legal secondary market, what would it look like? We are joined by bourbon enthusiast Nate Shue, a Patreon supporter, on this topic.

Show Notes:

• KDA and BIER report on the Kentucky Bourbon industry’s energy, water, and emissions data. - https://www.bieroundtable.com/news/formalizing-sustainability-kentucky-bourbon-industry-collaborates-with-bier/
• Whiskey Stocks and the Bubble Burst - https://www.barrons.com/articles/u-s-whiskey-stocks-like-brown-forman-have-soared-beware-the-bourbon-bubble-51557514898
• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about whiskey 'first' marketing.
• When did you start getting into bourbon?
• What do you think started the secondary market craze?
• What are the issues with the secondary market?
• Do you think referral secondary markets like Wine Searcher or Blur Book hurt or help?
• How does the value get established?
• What would happen if you removed the community aspect of the secondary market?
• Do you think other states should have laws similar to Washington D.C.?
• What about auction houses like Christie's?
• If you were to have a legal secondary market, what would it look like?
• Should distilleries price the bourbon so high that it basically eliminates the secondary market?
• Do you think if they shut down the secondary market overnight, would it just come back?

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Campbell Brown, President and Managing Director of Old Forester is back on the show. If you've been a long time listener, you may have remembered him back on Episode 98. As the President of Old Forester, he oversees a lot of the brands momentum and strategy. We get his take on bourbon tariffs with international expansion along with his hope for future movie partnerships. Anyone interested in a business background, you're going to find this one entertaining.

Show Notes:

• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Marianne Eaves.
• Talk about the Brown influence on our city because you've got the Brown Hotel, The Brown Theatre, the Hot Brown, etc.
• Is there pressure to keep the Brown tradition going?
• How did you work your way up at Brown-Forman?
• What got you into the Old Forester category?
• Talk about the building and distillery.
• What about the fire in 2014?
• What chapter are we in right now in Old Forester history?
• Let’s talk about international markets and tariffs.
• What was the international growth plans for Old Forester prior to all the tariffs? Did they change or are they staying the same?
• Where do you see the Old Forester brand?
• What are you doing to elevate the Old Forester brand into a premium category?
• Talk about your team and what goes into the bottle.
• Do you take a Bill Samuels approach about not interfering with what goes in the bottle?
• Is there a brand rivalry in the company?
• Do you have to fight Woodford for barrels?
• Will you ever have 100% of production here?
• What impact did the Kingsman movie have on Old Forester business?
• Do you have a strategy to do more than Statemans?
• If you could do a movie tie in, which movie past or present would you do?
• How far down the gene pool are you to George Garvin Brown?

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Are Mint Juleps the problem child of bourbon cocktails? We examine the Mint Julep and it’s impact on history and give our novice commentary on horse racing. We then look at the crazy hoarding of higher aged MGP stocks because there are now groups scouring the country to find distilleries with this coveted whiskey. Is there a scary future of higher priced bourbons (over $100) that don’t carry an age statement? Lastly, we give our initial thoughts on the new Wild Turkey “Cornerstone” release.

Show Notes:

• Oldest Whiskey: http://www.lawhiskeysociety.com/pages/Worlds-Oldest-Whiskey
• Yelp Recommendations: https://www.yelp.com/collection/Si779eiZUmjGomZP2pZLTg
• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about the word smooth.
• 200th Episode of Bourbon Pursuit
• Kentucky Derby Post Mortem. Thoughts on the race?
• Bourbon was out in full force with Brown Forman having a spotlight. Are mint juleps a timeless classic or is it ruining good bourbon?
• How many brands can you name that have a horse on the label?
• MGP prices sky rocketing. When did this phenomenon begin?
• KY Owl Confiscated. Thoughts on the future with high price no age statement bourbon?
• Wild Turkey "Cornerstone" releasing their limited edition rye. http://whiskyadvocate.com/wild-turkey-masters-keep-cornerstone-rye-last-drop-glenrothes-whisky-whiskey/

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Bruce Russell and JoAnn Street both know their Wild Turkey distillation and family history like the back of their hand. Both have been brand ambassadors but are now transitioning to new roles. While JoAnn is developing the hospitality side, Bruce is learning the ins and outs of the distillery. This show dives into the personalities of these two as we discuss the effect of bringing fresh faces to the distillery and how they plan on keeping traditions alive.

Show Notes:

• Episode 186 we feature Pam Heilman of Michter’s Distillery
• 150 bottles remaining from 4 barrels of Pursuit Series
• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about fake whiskey.
• JoAnn, do you want to get into working in the distillery?
• Bruce, are they going to make you join the union?
• How are you related to Jimmy?
• How did you decide to get into the family business?
• Talk about being a female in whiskey.
• What does it mean to be new blood in the company?
• Tell us about your background and how it will help with working in the distillery.
• Did they have a daycare for you at the distillery when you were young?
• What is your favorite Wild Turkey product?
• Do you see yourself living in Lawrenceburg?
• Give us your typical brand ambassador spiel for 80 proof and 101.
• Tell us about Rare Breed and Kentucky Spirit.
• Why is 101 Rye important?

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We all know wood influences bourbon, but to what degree? This episode explores both natural and human impact to understand the chemical breakdown of what happens in the barrel. Peggy rounds this out by pairing it with food so you know how to train your palate. Peggy Noe Stevens is renowned for her ability to combine all of your senses into a memorable experience when you are drinking any bourbon. This session took place at the 2018 Kentucky Bourbon Affair and you can buy tickets to remaining 2019 events at kybourbonaffair.com.

Show Notes:

• Behind the Scenes of Four Roses Small Batch Select - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my9YR-fr95s
• Kenny’s Big Batch Mint Julep Recipe - https://www.patreon.com/posts/26331151
• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about who you would like to go out drinking with.
• All the magic of bourbon happens in the barrel.
• Overview of barrel making and charring barrels.
• Innovation with barrels.
• As much as we try to control barrels and warehouses, mother nature still controls a lot of variables.
• Barrels provide 6 basic food flavors: sweet, spice, wood, smoke, fruit, and floral.
• Understanding aroma and flavors.
• Tricks to neutralize your olfactory sense.
• What decisions affect the flavor of bourbon?
• What flavor does toasting a barrel provide?
• What flavor does charring a barrel provide?
• The chemistry behind bourbon.
• Importance of oxygen and water.
• Exploring the texture of bourbon.
• Where do the barrel notes hit the tongue?
• When is it over oaked?
• The Chew Down: bourbon and food pairing.

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How should a successful bourbon club function? Are there annual dues that go towards hosted events or is it completely unstructured where all business takes place online? We invited the leaders of Louisville, Lexington, Dallas, and Houston bourbon societies to come on the show and talk about how they manage growth and keep participation levels high amongst their members.

Show Notes:

• James “Buddy” Thompson - https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/louisville/obituary.aspx?n=james-thompson-buddy&pid=192232789&fhid=4753
• 2019 Eagle Rare Life Award - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICAjPavE4hs
• This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about flasks.
• Joining us this week: Kristopher Hart (Houston Bourbon Society), Peter Schmidt (Dallas Bourbon Club), David Bock (The Louisville Bourbon Society), and Matt Preston (Lexington Bourbon Society)
• Tell us about the purpose of your Bourbon Society. (Events, philanthropy, bottle swapping, barrel picks, etc.)
• What are the differences between a traditional and non-traditional bourbon society format?
• What do your events look like? Who are you inviting?
• Are events completely bourbon focused? Or do you cross over with food, cigars, music, etc.?
• Is Texas half whiskey/half bourbon or all bourbon?
• What are the benefits when you pay to be part of a club?
• Do you feel like your club is more intimate than an online group?
• Walk us through one of your meetings.
• What do members get in return for their dues?
• How do you charge for events?
• Do your events have consistent participation or are there constantly new people?
• What challenges do you experience when hosting events?
• Is it redundant to have multiple local bourbon groups?

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The roundtable is back at it again, but this time we are joined by David Jennings of RareBird101 and Wade Woodard of tater-talk to discuss some topics. Learn how you can be a part of Wild Turkey history by supporting RareBird101 on Kickstarter and if you agree or disagree with Wade on barrel finished bourbon classifications. We wrap up talking about limited editions and store picks because that's always a hot button for all.

Show Notes:

• The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Joy Perrine, the first female bartender to be inducted into the Kentucky Bourbon Hall of Fame.
• Wild Turkey Kickstarter with David Jennings of RareBird101 - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rarebird101/wild-turkey-american-spirit
• News came out this week that the TTB is allowing "specialty whiskey" classifications to adorn the name bourbon on the label. Is this the demise of the bourbon law?
• Maker’s Mark released another limited edition. From a retail standpoint, isn’t this the easiest money that’s ever been made?
• When it comes to store picks should retailers care about what’s in the bottle? Taste vs Age, who wins? Will it sell no matter what?
• Thank you to Blake of bourbonr.com, Brian of sippncorn.com, and Jordan of breakingbourbon.com for joining as usual.

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Chris Zaborowski put Westport Whiskey & Wine on the map with their very large tasting bar and plenty of private picks. This session was recorded at the Higher Proof Expo during the 2018 Kentucky Bourbon Affair. The 2019 Kentucky Bourbon Affair will take place June 4-8. It’s 5 Days. 19 Distilleries. 45 Events. Tickets for the 2019 Bourbon Affair are currently on sale and you can find our more information at KYBourbonAffair.com.

Show Notes:

• Pursuit Series Episodes 006 through 009 on sale now, visit PursuitSpirits.com.
• The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about the Kentucky Derby.
• Chris Zaborowski helped shape the Stave & Thief Society curriculum.
• What's all the fuss about bourbon?
• What do you need to know about buying a single barrel?
• You have to have a retail partner.
• All brands are allocated.
• Do you choose to go to a distillery or get samples sent to you?
• What's your delivery lead time?
• What brands are available for barrel selections? Large vs mid-size distilleries.
• What questions do you ask when you go on a barrel selection?
• What is the estimated cost?
• What is the expected bottle yield?
• What's the final bottling proof?
• Can you get it Non-Chill Filtered?
• Let's taste ours vs theirs.

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Starting a new bourbon brand is tough, especially when you are in the backyard of the biggest dogs in the industry. However, Kaveh Zamanian saw a hole in the market where he could bring new mash bills and new experiences to bourbon drinkers. As the founder of Rabbit Hole Distillery, he has faced some criticism but is taking it head on in this episode. We talk about the startup hustle, contract distilling, pricing strategies, their 5 year roadmap and more.

Show Notes:

• San Francisco World Spirits Competition - https://bourbonpursuit.com/2018/04/12/144-judging-san-francisco-world-spirits-competition-anthony-dias-blue/
•  “Bourbon & Thoroughbred Infused” Lean Management Training Certification Course from April 22-23, 2019. http://solarity.com/lean
• Pursuit Spirits on ModernThirst.com. https://modernthirst.com/2019/03/22/pursuit-spirits-video-tasting-with-kenny-of-bourbon-pursuit/
• The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Bourbon BBQ potato chips.
• Let’s start from the beginning. Talk about your introduction to bourbon.
• When you first met your wife, were you intimidated?
• What made you want to go down the path of opening a distillery?
• What did you want to change when you got in the bourbon industry?
• How did you get the ball rolling?
• Did everyone think you were crazy?
• How do you outline expectations to investors?
• Do you think it is challenging for someone from outside of Kentucky to build a distillery in Kentucky?
• What was your motivation for building the distillery vs. sourcing?
• Can you disclose who was contract distilling for you?
• How did you come up with your recipe?
• Can you explain the difference between malted grain and a regular grain source?
• How do you know your mash bill will be good years down the road?
• Talk about being added to the official Kentucky Bourbon Trail.
• Do you think you are beyond being a craft distiller now?
• Do you want to see TTB define the term small batch?
• What are you all doing differently that would entice visitors to come check our Rabbit Hole?
• When people see the name Kaveh Zamanian, do you think the general public has an unfair bias?
• How hard is it to build a brand or story when you had no connection to the industry until recently?
• Since you have a psychology background, can you give us a breakdown of the bourbon consumer?
• Who are your early adopters?
• How do you deal with negative feedback?
• Talk about your pricing strategy?
• How old is most of your whiskey?
• What keeps you from putting the age statement on the bottle?
• How do your products stand out in a crowded market?
• Talk about your relationship with Death & Co.
• Do you think there is any confusion among whiskey geeks about your product being for cocktails vs. sipping neat?
• What story do you want consumer to know when they see your product?
• What are your long term goals for the brand? Any intentions of selling it off?
• Tell us about your roadmap. What is going to be happening with the brand in 5 years?
• What can visitors expect when they visit Rabbit Hole?
• What is your connection with cigars?
• How did you come up with the name Rabbit Hole?

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Charbay is changing things up. To be a Master Distiller in the Karakasevic family, you must meet or exceed your predecessors ability. Marko decided to try to make whiskey with a brewer’s key ingredient, hops! However, some folks in the whiskey world don’t think it should classify as one. This podcast digs into his history and what types of beer styles can turn into delicious whiskey.

Show Notes:

• The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about the San Francisco World Spirits Competition.
• How did your family get started in this business?
• Did you have a choice to not be a distiller?
• What's an eau de vie?
• Do you clog the still up with hops?
• Is there a breakdown of grains you use in your beer?
• Have you done any experiments with other beers?
• Why do you age in stainless?
• What is the formula approval process like with TTB?
• How many styles are you going to do?
• What is your go to beer style?
• What is your response to people who say Charbay isn't a true whiskey?
• What do you have aging now?
• What justifies the high price point for you releases?
• Any business growth plans?
• Where does the name Charbay come from?
• Where are you distributed?

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The roundtable welcomes Jackie James, of @JackieJames on IG and Creator of HerWhiskey.com, as a panelist this week. We talk with Tim Jones about his new show on the Discovery Channel, Moonshiners: Whiskey Business. We also discuss the new Jim Beam Legent and Weller Full Proof because who doesn't love a little bit of controversy?

Show Notes:

• The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Captain Kirk.
• Join Kenny and Ryan at The Louisville Bourbon Society meeting on 3/18. https://admin.associationsonline.com/secure/events_register.cfm
• What bottle got you into whiskey, Jackie?
• Tim Jones tells us about Discovery Channel's new show, Moonshiners: Whiskey Business.
• Does the show follow a formula?
• What is your primary role on the show?
• How do you help with marketing?
• What is important to getting the customer to pick up that first bottle?
• How can brands stand out on the shelf?
• Take us through the distiller selection process.
• Is the whiskey ready from these distilleries? Has it been aged long enough?
• Do you think Virginia will ever be able to compete with Kentucky?
• Did you have any input on pricing on the show?
• Jim Beam is releasing Legent, a collaboration between Fred Noe and Shinji Fukuyo.
• Does this new release excite you?
• What do you think of the price point?
• Do you look at this product as a marketing opportunity?
• What is your stance on blending?
• Do you think the Weller Full Proof line extension is going to be a good thing?
• Do you think Weller is listening to their fans by creating a full proof version?
• Let's talk about the EH Taylor Amaranth.
• Thanks to Bourbonr.com, BreakingBourbon.com, HerWhsikey.com, and TimJonesCreative.com for joining the roundtable.

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Trey Zoeller makes his return and we are also joined by his father, Chet Zoeller. We go back in time, before Jefferson's Bourbon was established, to see how the Co-Founders sourced whiskey. We look at the current landscape to see if they feel pressure as sourcing becomes much harder when distilleries want to hang on to current stocks and people with deeper pockets enter the industry. We delve into Chet's past by talking about prohibition era whiskey and ask if he thinks Jefferson's Ocean is a gimmick. Trey and Chet provide knowledge behind growing a business and making pivots to find new opportunities.

Show Notes:

• Join Bourbon Pursuit on March 16th at The Louisville Bourbon Society meeting - http://www.thebourbonsociety.org/
• The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about getting caught up in the moment.
• Talk about growing up around bourbon.
• What made you think getting into bourbon was going to work?
• Does 25 year old Irish Whiskey take on as much oak as bourbon in the US?
• How did you go about sourcing barrels?
• Chet, talk about your books and how you are a historian.
• Did you think Jefferson's would be as successful as it is today?
• What roadblocks did you hit?
• Did you feel like you were pricing it too high at first?
• What’s the next big hurdle for bourbon to take over scotch?
• Are many brands underselling themselves today?
• What flavor profile were you aiming for when you started Jefferson's?
• Did you start off selling in Kentucky only?
• Talk about the first blending experience.
• How did you name Old Iron Skillet?
• Do you have any tips on blending?
• If you tap into a barrel that isn't good, how can you know it will be better in a few years?
• Tell us about all the moving parts of sourcing whiskey.
• Do you have a turf war problem when sourcing?
• What did you think of Trey’s Ocean experiment. Was it a gimmick?
• Tell us about the double barrel and twin oak.
• Do you think there is an opportunity for line extensions?
• How did the New Orleans experiment turn out?
• Talk about your pet sharks.

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Jamie Farris might be known as The Store Pick King. Lincoln Road out of Hattiesburg, MS is a hidden gem for those in the know. Depending on the day, Jamie might have 70 or more available store picks at one time. This episode digs into his barrel pick strategies, how distilleries have changed in treating their single barrel customers, and how he handles the “aficionados” that visit his store and leave with nothing.

Show Notes:

• The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about influencers.
• Tell us how you got into bourbon and owning a liquor store.
• Talk about dry county Mississippi. Were you trying to get moonshine?
• How many store picks do you have available?
• How do you get so many private barrels?
• Who's cut you back on getting some barrels?
• Does that upset you a little bit since you sort of started this craze?
• Has the Mississippi allocation decreased or do you have to share the pie with more people?
• What year did you get in the private barrel game?
• What single barrel program does the best job?
• Do you approach this the same as you did 5 years ago when you could reject barrels?
• How often are you rejecting barrel samples?
• Are you blending because single barrels are getting boring?
• The next step is creating your own label, are looking into creating one?
• Do you think you put Hattiesburg on the map?
• Some of the Lincoln Road picks are credited to Misty. Explain who Misty is.
• Do you think there is a market for collaboration picks?
• Is there another category that's growing with a fan base like bourbon?
• How do you explain the Maker's Mark 46 barrel program to someone who isn't a bourbon geek?
• What are most whiskey/bourbon shoppers looking for? The average shopper vs the “bourbon/whiskey aficionado”.
• Why do Mississippi legislatures think tastings once a quarter is a good idea?
• How annoying does it get to have these "aficionados" come in and leave with nothing?
• Do you foresee an end to the craziness?
• What are some current or emerging trends in whiskey/bourbon?
• Do think it will be a problem in the future when these places run out of MGP?
• Do you feel it's not your obligation to push craft whiskey?
• Do you think stores should price at secondary?

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Eddie Russell from Wild Turkey needs no introduction. He’s one of the most honest Master Distillers in the industry and tells it like it is. This episode digs into the nuances of the Wild Turkey line up to see if we can figure out what could change. The biggest answer we all want to know is when will there be a barrel proof Russell’s Reserve? Tune in to find out.

Show Notes:

• The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about value whiskey.
• How often are you going to Jimmy with questions?
• Do you feel like you have the job down?
• When you retire do you think you will hang around the distillery like Jimmy?
• Do you feel like you have to work at the distillery?
• Since you travel so much, what airline are you loyal to?
• When you travel, do you wear Wild Turkey gear?
• Are there any travel destinations that have stood out to you?
• Do you get to have any fun when you travel?
• Are there any plans for changing barrel proof entry?
• How can you not get 101 proof out of bourbon that goes in a 110?
• What is the thought process behind where in the rickhouse you place the barrels to age?
• Is 108 your target for Rare Breed?
• How many barrels are being dumped into Rare Breed?
• Talk about the warehouses. Do you see a difference in the whiskey coming out of the brick warehouses?
• How often do you get the chance to take a gamble?
• Do you see 81 still being prevalent in the market place?
• How many more derivatives do you think you can do?
• Are you wanting to bring in another recipe?
• Will we ever see a barrel strength Russell's Reserve?
• Do you enjoy picking barrels with consumers?
• Talk about the proof difference between Wild Turkey Kentucky Spirit and Russell's Reserve.
• Tell us about the partnership with Matthew McConaughey.
• Is it a goal to bring back the 8-year-old age statement?

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Will the U.S Supreme Court completely change alcohol sales across the country? The case of The Ketchum Family and Total Wine vs the State of Tennessee could bring interstate commerce parity and break down all the shipping law restrictions. The Roundtable’s legal counsel of Sipp’n Corn explains it in laymen terms while we discuss the opportunity this could present to retailers like Amazon. We keep the legal discussion going with KY House Bill 200 that would allow distilleries to have releases that don’t go to retail stores. Then we wrap it up with a hypothetical question of what would you do if you are creating your own whiskey label?

Show Notes:

• The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about new bourbon drinkers.
• Total Wine vs State of TN in the Supreme Court and what that means for nationwide shipping.
• House Bill 200 in KY is pushing for distilleries to have something unique that doesn't make its way to distribution. Does it actually compete with liquor stores?
• Say you are creating your own whiskey label. Do you create something new or do you try to revive an old defunct brand?
• Thanks to Bourbonr.com, BreakingBourbon.com, Sippncorn.com, and TheBourbonBabe.com for joining the roundtable.

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Matt Rehwoldt, or better known as WWE Superstar Aiden English, is finding a passion in bourbon with WrestlingWithWhiskey Instagram and YouTube series. Matt was in town for a live event so we took the opportunity to invite him over to talk about wrestling and whiskey. We discuss a his career, personal life, and of course, when bourbon became an obsession. His traveling schedule has turned him into a national bourbon hunter and he's got some stories to tell.

Show Notes:

• Find Bourbon Pursuit on Pandora
• Learn more about Pursuit Series
• Derby Museum Legends Series
• Bourbon Pursuit presenting at The Louisville Bourbon Society on 3/18
• The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about limited edition whiskey advertising.
• How did you get into whiskey?
• Is Wrestling with Whiskey the real you?
• Have your trips turned into adventures with side stops for Bourbon hunting?
• Have you connected with a store yet and built those relationships?
• Talk about how you got into wrestling.
• What demographic is the WWE fan base?
• South Park did a spoof of wrestling. Talk about the state of wrestling and how it’s perceived as choreography.
• Tell us about your wife.
• Were you nervous when you married into the top wrestling tree?
• What’s your persona in the ring?
• Have you ever thought about changing your persona?
• Is WWE against alcohol being portrayed?
• How have you been received on social media when sharing posts about wrestling and bourbon?
• Have you ever been stalked?
• Are you using Instagram to connect with fans and let them see the real you behind the scenes?

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We have both Masters from Michter's today. Andrea Wilson was a guest back on Episode 47, and she makes her return with a new role as Master of Maturation. We dig into chemical compounds and wood effects on their bourbon. In addition, we have Pam Heilmann, the current Master Distiller, and we talk about her past at the Booker Noe plant and what they are doing at Michter's. We touch on the new Fort Nelson Distillery and dive into the topics the whiskey geeks care about like limited high age expressions, barrel proof releases, and if could we ever expect to see a single barrel program? Listen to all of our Michter's podcasts at https://bourbonpursuit.com/michters-podcasts/

Show Notes:

• Buffalo Trace's Virtual Reality Tour
• Conor O’Driscoll Joins Heaven Hill Distillery as Fifth Master Distiller 
• Pursuit Series Episodes 3 through 7 are available for purchase. Visit https://pursuitspirits.com/episodes/
• The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Bourbon and teething.
• What does Master of Maturation mean?
• How did you get into whiskey?
• What’s a relief supervisor?
• Can you train your palate or is it a natural ability?
• Is the tasting panel the best job?
• What are the engineers bringing to the table?
• How much still time do you have?
• Is Willie Pratt still in the picture?
• What does toasted mean?
• Why don't you make barrel strength bourbon all the time?
• Why hasn't Michter's started a single barrel program?
• How long have you been distilling here?
• What is your plan for your distillate?
• Was there some fine tuning performed on the still?
• Are you just making Bourbon? Or are you making Rye, Malt, anything else?
• Tell us about the Shenk's and Bomberger's lines.
• Are you all looking forward to the new visitor experience?

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A Bourbon Pursuit exclusive! Brad Boswell, CEO and 4th Generation Cooper at Independent Stave Company, rarely does any media coverage so we are ecstatic to not only capture his family story, but how they take customer service to the extreme and continue to invest in research and development to push the bounds of today’s bourbon. If you've ever wanted to know the extent of oak influence on whiskey, this one touches every aspect from types of wood, the building process, charring, and finishing.

Show Notes:

• Learn more about Pursuit Series
• The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Bourbon at Great Wolf Lodge
• How did you grow into this business?
• When you were young did you have a feeling of your family's legacy in the cooperage industry?
• Did you family ever lobby to have the law put in place for new charred oak barrels?
• How has your family been able to maintain business all these years?
• What other side business have you had in the past?
• Have whiskey barrels always been the hallmark for your company?
• Talk about the size of your operation.
• Has the waiting list died down a little bit? Any issues meeting demand?
• What’s the process look like for bringing on a new client?
• Tell us the story of Maker's 46 from your perspective.
• Talk about the process of making a barrel.
• What are the differences between various oaks, French vs. American vs. Japanese?
• Do you have customers that prefer KY barrels vs MO?
• Why do you keep innovating?
• Are there any other core states you are harvesting oak from right now?
• Tell us about Oregon oak.
• What’s the wackiest spot you've gotten an oak tree from?
• Tourism has changed over the years, what has that been like for ISC and what is the future?
• What experiments are you doing with the barrels?
• Do customers ever get upset about other companies copying their barrel finishes?
• What's a barrel experiment that ended with a bad result?
• How can you control the variables?
• How long can you char a barrel?
• How many times can you reuse a barrel?
• Where are we in the growth of American Whiskey?

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There's yet another FAKE PAPPY ALERT! Yes, it's true and it's not going to be the last time either. Fakers are getting better and we talk about the most recent scandal with an employee of Buffalo Trace who has allegedly been selling counterfeit Pappy on the secondary market. And if you've been buying too much, maybe you should be watching Tidying Up on Netflix. Then we dig into the certification game that's happening. Is there really such a thing as a Whiskey Sommelier or is it just a hoax for your money and some large medallion? We finish off the conversation saying goodbye to Kerry and wish him well.

Show Notes:

• The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about whiskey marketing
• Fake Pappy and the secondary market
• Netflix's Tidying Up and how it relates to bourbon bunkers
• What is the definition of a Whiskey Sommelier?
• Whiskey Jug Article: http://thewhiskeyjug.com/whiskey/what-is-a-whiskey-sommelier/
• Whiskey samples and reviews
• Goodbye to Kerry

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Chuck Morton is a Bourbon Venture Capitalist with the Bourbon Bank Fund backed by Venture First. This episode compliments barrel sourcing from episode 182 on building a brand. But where do you get the funds? Is a traditional bank the way to go? Or with someone like our guest who knows how to put collateral on barrels of whiskey in return for dollars? Learn how to become a start up in the bourbon world and the common mistakes seen when looking for investors.

Show Notes:

• The week's Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about the need to drink responsibly
• What is Venture First? What is the Bourbon Bank Fund?
• So you're not in this to lose money?
• What does SPV mean?
• What is your ideal customer?
• Why come to you instead of a bank?
• What did people do before when they were interested in expanding?
• How are customers responding?
• Are you lending to companies with no juice that just want to create a startup?
• How do you approach a startup that doesn't have a proven product?
• What are some common mistakes that you notice when distilleries are getting started or jumping from one level to the next?
• Do you feel the market might be saturated or is the there room for growth in bourbon?
• What data are your analysts using to determine trends?
• How did the idea come about?
• Do you see a bunch of defaults on the horizon?
• Are you allowed to work with people outside of Kentucky?
• How much does the name Kentucky come into an evaluation?
• Do you have a bullshit meter when people come to you with a proposal?
• What’s the worst pitch you've heard?
• If someone like Dave Pickerell came in, would it be a turn on or turn off?
• Are you looking for people that value the whiskey over the experience?
• Tell us about your investments in cooperages and rickhouses.
• How can you compete against Buzick for rickhouse building?
• What kind of return is coming to the owner on an investment?
• Are there signs that a distillery is about to sell?
• Are you receiving dividends?
• Would you prefer a distillery that is turning a good profit or one that intends on being acquired?
• How much do you need to start a distillery?

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An insider exclusive where you get to see what happens behind the scenes of the bourbon business. Bourbon sourcing isn't a new concept but it's a hidden fortress of the industry the average consumer has no clue about. Jeff Hopmayer of Brindiamo Group tells us some of the tricks of the trade in the barrel sourcing world, how he has created a connected web across the world to get people access to any spirit, and how he has seen fake bourbon come from tankers that would fool even the best master distillers. He has helped brands like Kentucky Owl, Bardstown Bourbon Company, Barrell Bourbon and many more. This episode is one you can't miss.

Show Notes:

• How did you cut your teeth in the industry?
• Talk about BRINDIAMO GROUP and some of the services you offer to the spirits industry?
• Can you talk about the evolution of sourcing?
• How hard is it to come by barrels now?
• How are you getting your hands on 12-14 year old bourbon when the demand couldn't be higher?
• So you can do transaction tomorrow for $15million?
• Are you looking to create blends or brands with an intent of selling?
• Say we want to create a brand called Old Ascot. Where do we start?
• How do you gauge if a barrel is worth the investment?
• Brass tacks, what's a barrel cost?
• When you get a barrel and it's big cost. Do you ever get a leaky or an empty barrel?
• How many brands are you supplying that are non-distilling producers?
• What's the typical acquisition of barrel amounts?
• How many barrels do you have in inventory?
• Are you buying a lot of younger barrels and waiting and aging?
• What's the level of risk introduced from buying barrels with younger distilleries that don't have a proven track record?
• Do you think there are NDPs that may not actually have bourbon in their bottles?
• Can you give us a percentage of what you think that's out there is fake bourbon?
• How much is stuff being reclaimed from overseas?
• Do you think should consumers should know if it was reclaimed?
• You've got very successful brands like Kentucky Owl, Barrell Bourbon, and Bardstown Bourbon Company as lighthouse customers that our listeners are familiar with. At what stage were you helping these brands out?
• What contributes to not being successful?
• What's your long term view on where this market is going?
• You seem to think $50+ is the successful strategy for pricing products. That seems steep to us.
• Are you concerned this may price out those true bourbon consumers?
• Are manufacturing costs and trading hands contribute to a higher cost?
• How do you buy barrels on the open market? Is there a dashboard of what's available like the stock market online or is it an old boys club?
• Talk about the 1792 Barton Warehouse collapse. Were those barrels owned by you or the distiller and what happens in that scenario?
• Is there a distillery NOT selling their whiskey on the open market?
• Any other states besides KY, IN, and TN that has a lot of whiskey on open market?

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Larry Kass has done it all at Heaven Hill. Public relations, brand management, legal, and even more behind the scenes rolls over his 20 year career. Larry first made an appearance on the podcast back on episode 167. You're going to hear about growing some small family run operation managing a few brands turned into hundreds, how the infamous Rittenhouse Rye 21, 23, and 25 year bottling came into existence, the disappearance of Heaven Hill 6yr BIB, and the original partnership with the Kentucky Distillers Association before it was a real thing. This is a real piece of history and we wish Larry years of relaxation in his retirement. Show Notes:

• This week's Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Bourbon Geek Pricing
• Fred, tell us a little about Larry
• Let’s start at the beginning. Before coming into Heaven Hill did you have a fascination of spirits?
• We’re you doing the job of 45 people back then?
• Did you ever find a knack for brown and aged goods?
• Who really stood out for you?
• What was marketing like for whiskey back in 1998?
• Talk about the Rittenhouse Rye 21, 23, and 25 years
• What do you think of the secondary market?
• Do you all use it as market data?
• Is that why we saw the end to Heaven Hill 6yr Bottled In Bond?
• Give us a story about a writer that pissed you off over the years
• Do you think Heaven Hill has done a poor job at PR over the past few years to whiskey geeks?
• Who are the leakers?
• Fred has feelings of remorse about Elijah Craig 12
• Take us through the days of high aged stuff like Martin Mills 24 year that were part of the export market.
• As a brand manager, how much influence do you have into the final product?
• You’re part of the original KDA partnership
• Can you leave bourbon? What’s the retirement plan?
• What's the proudest thing you accomplished in your career?

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It's one of our favorite episodes of the year. The Roundtable takes a look back at Bourbon in 2018 and our picks for Whiskey of the Year. We then kick off the second half of the show with our predictions for 2019 about expansions, acquisitions, price increases, and lots more...including our favorite 90s and 2000s rap artists. Show Notes:

• This weeks Above the Char with Fred Minnick has him answering random questions off twitter.
• 2018 Year in Review
• What was your whiskey of the year
• What is your greatest accomplishment of 2018?
• Vintage Spirits Law came into effect in KY
• We picked our first barrel together
• Longbranch made it's Wild Turkey debut
• Brian won a case with Castle & Key against Sazerac over the Old Taylor distillery name
• 2019 Predictions
• Banned Crotchshots in Bourbonr and now he's looking for the next great suggestion to improve the group for 2019
• Lots of year end expansions being announced in 2018. Do we expect more in 2019?
• Will prices continue to grow? Four Roses Private Barrel program increase starts Jan 1.
• Henry McKenna won SF Spirits comp in 2018. Will the Henry McKenna fad pass in 2019?
• Denny Potter left Heaven Hill for Maker's Mark in 2018. Will Heaven Hill find a new Master Distiller? Is there an issue if they don't find one in a timely fashion?
• Then we finish talking about 90s and 2000s rap icons

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What do the Bears, Blackhawks, Cubs, Sox, and Bourbon have in common? That's life for Carmen DeFalco, ESPN Chicago Radio host of Carmen and Jurko. Carmen and Kenny were introduced over twitter and through Carmen's tweet storm of local sports, he has a following of people that want to know more about bourbon. Carmen joins the show to talk about his Chicago hunting tales and when he breaks open big bottles for Stanley Cup victories.

Show Notes:

• We had some trouble getting started and we now see our kids can navigate technology better
• Talk about your radio show, Carmen and Jurko on ESPN Radio Chicago. http://www.espn.com/espnradio/podcast/archive/_/id/3095452
• What's your bourbon story?
• Your Dad was in the wholesale business. Did that have a big influence?
• Were your friends at 21 making fun of you for being a whiskey drinker?
• Has it flipped where people now go to your house and rummage through your whiskey collection?
• Are you more of a Binny's person or do you have your hole in the walls?
• How long have you been going through the cycle of traveling and hunting?
• Maker's Mark is like a gateway into this world. What was next for you?
• Can you remember any of those resources you used when you started learning more about bourbon?
• How much do you talk about bourbon on the air?
• What's really becoming more hard to find?
• Do you ever drink on air?
• Do you have a particular whiskey to align with what sport your watching?
• Now that you have had some older vintages you could use those as trading for better values
• Do you get chastised for not being a cubs fan?
• Bourbon and Bacon Fundraiser Event - https://chicagobourbonandbacon.eventscff.org/
• Follow Carmen on Twitter - https://twitter.com/carmendefalco

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Jim Rutledge is a household name in bourbon because his wealth of knowledge is unsurpassed and famed history of reviving Four Roses. We talk about those days and ask him why he really left something so great. But, there's a new chapter to write! This week his TTB label for a revival of an old brand, Cream of Kentucky, was approved. We talk about this bourbon, where it's headed, as well as the entire industry on this new exclusive episode.

Show Notes:

• This weeks Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about the importance of social media and online forums by whiskey geeks.
• New TTB Laws wrap-up by Sku on K&L wines blog. https://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwinescom-spirits-blog/2018/12/3/ttb-proposes-new-regulations-modernizing-alcohol-labeling
• Episode 011 and 012 with Jim Rutledge
• Rewind us back to your retirement because it seemed like you didn't want to stay retired for long
• What's your involvement at Castle and key?
• Whatever happened to that rye?
• Did you see a different passion at Castle & Key while it was building vs Four Roses that was a well-oiled engine?
• What sort of corners were being cut at Seagrams at the time when you were trying to turn it around?
• Talk about rebuilding the brand of Four Roses through acquisition, fighting, and more.
• Be straight. Why did you leave Four Roses?
• Did you stand up a lot to upper management?
• It sounded like Four Roses was family. So why leave?
• Is it hard to work at a distillery where you're only filling 3 barrels a day?
• Did you hire Brent Elliott?
• What was your relationship with Brent while at Four Roses?
• How does one go about becoming your #2?
• Talk about funding and how to raise money to build a distillery?
• Talk about Cream of Kentucky and the history of the label
• Cream of Kentucky TTB filing - https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=18325001000092
• Where is the growth going to be for this particular label?
• Where do you see the American whiskey category trending over the next 5 years?

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The Whiskey Row series of Old Forester represent pivotal dates in history for the brand. Deciding how to make them coincide with flavor profiles takes a Master Taster. Jackie Zykan returns to the show as we discuss sensory training and how to sniff out binders at our local stores before diving into the Whiskey Row series and trying 1910 Old Fine Whiskey. We wrap up the show talking about President's Choice and if dusties inspire or not.

Show Notes:

• Do you have a new title now?
• Talk about the sensory training
• What’s different about going through this process versus just drinking bourbon everyday?
• What tips can you give to someone about learning to nose?
• How do you know when a barrel ready to be pulled?
• How much time are you spending at the distillery vs bottling vs anywhere else for tasting?
• Talk about why you dilute so low for tasting?
• So you have this really cool story about Old Forester 86 and 100 history
• Talk about the Whiskey Row series
• The dates all mean something
• What was the idea to make permanent line extensions instead of doing the money grab on limited releases?
• So in a time when people say there is a bourbon shortage, what's your response to that?
• Talk about 1910 and what happened that year
• Do you pay attention to the Facebook and bourbon forums out there?
• Why not have a 2014 series to commemorate the new distillery?
• Talk about President's Choice and your integral part in it
• What’s your ideal bourbon profile?
• What’s the oldest Brown-Forman product you’ve tried?

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Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Share those bottles and create some memories with your loved ones. There's a few interesting topics in the news this week. We touch on distillery expansions of Heaven Hill and Kentucky Owl while diving into the second part of this segment on the hottest topic of all, single barrel stickers. Show Notes:

• Bourbon Pursuit Private Barrel Club information - https://www.patreon.com/bourbonpursuit
• C+C Pursuit Series Episodes 001 and 002 will be released soon - http://pursuitspirits.com/
• This week's Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about being a good bourbon steward as Santa comes to town.
• Heaven Hill announces $65 million expansion - https://www.distillerytrail.com/blog/heaven-hill-announces-65-million-plan-to-expand-distillery-experience-in-the-bourbon-capital-of-the-world/
• KY OWL Park renderings and their pyramid rackhouses. $150 million. https://www.kentucky.com/news/business/article183535861.html
• Kentucky Owl Park Video - https://www.facebook.com/bourbonpursuit/videos/256139931742168/
• Can $300 bourbons and $200 ryes be able to sustain this long-term?
• Superfly Bourbon Club came out with a retro Knob Creek label that completely covered up the Knob Creek label. Is this legal?
• More on stickers is the 101st label done by RareBird101
• Honest Thoughts: One & A Century - https://rarebird101.com/2018/11/18/one-a-century/
• David Jennings gives us the inside scoop on a new Wild Turkey book!

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Just the thing you needed to kick start your Thanksgiving season. We've had Jimmy and Eddie on the show and we've got upcoming episodes featuring Bruce and Joann, but I don't think anyone has ever had all 4 of these people sit down at one time and talk. We go into bourbon itself, the family, the roles they are playing within the business, the new Kentucky Spirit glass design, and lots more. It's a family affair with some exchanges of compliments from each around the table. Show Notes:

• Our first barrel pick for 2019 is going to be Buffalo Trace. View all of our barrel picks at https://www.patreon.com/bourbonpursuit
• Fred published his article in Forbes for the 2018 best American Whiskey every day sipper.
• Fred does Instagram Live for Best of 2018
• Fred talks about his holiday gift guide on Forbes and why it was really hard to coming up new pairings in this week's Above the Char - https://www.forbes.com/sites/fredminnick/2018/11/13/holiday-gift-guide-2018-the-most-money-minded-bourbons/
• Bruce, they are really pressuring you to move back soon
• Bruce, remember that panel we were on together?
• Are you excited to have Bruce back Eddie?
• Jimmy, how old were you when you started at the distillery?
• What has changed from the operations standpoint from when you first started?
• Have you all done recently to certify your warehouses or check them out after the Barton incident?
• Jimmy when you were coming up the ranks, federal government would check everything. Not so much anymore
• Do you think the distilling industry misses the oversight of the government?
• What does "Master Distiller" mean to you, Eddie?
• What about the flip side that a "Master Distiller" is just a marketer now?
• You did have to change the entry proof at one time. Was that corporate pressure?
• Why does some proof go down vs go up in some warehouses?
• When people come in for a visit, do they want that level of detail?
• Do you read your Yelp reviews?
• Is the bartending community the gate to your future?
• What's the worst part about signing bottles?
• Where do you see barrel finishes in the Wild Turkey line since the last Master's Keep was finished?
• It seems like a lot of flavored whiskeys have died down over time
• Why are we still not experimenting with different mashes?
• Bruce, you're trying to revive the rye. talk about that.
• Are you a scotch person?
• Jimmy, what have you learned by the younger generations?
• From RareBird101, what's your honest opinion on the new Wild Turkey Kentucky Spirit bottle?
• So why isn't the top level listening to you?
• Choose an individual and take one word that embodies the person
• View all Wild Turkey Podcasts

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I don't know a bourbon enthusiast that doesn't love Four Roses. But this one goes into the depths of expert level opinions behind mash bills, hype behind certain runs, single barrels, mutated yeast, and more. Brett Atlas and Travis Hill join the show to talk about their experiences with Four Roses, their 10 recipes, and how they blend and create their own Limited Edition Small Batches.

Show Notes:

• Farewall to Dave Pickerell. Enjoy our podcast with him http://bourbonpursuit.com/2018/03/29/man-behind-100-distilleries-dave-pickerell/
• The Lounge with Will Chambers - https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-lounge-with-will-chambers/id1440284845
• This week's Above The Char with Fred Minnick reflects on the past of Dave Pickerell.
• Was it cask strength that got you hooked into Four Roses or was it a standard offering?
• Give a break down of how to decipher the recipe for something like OBSQ vs OESF
• Do you think the tasting notes on the back of the hang tag is inaccurate?
• How often have you tried all recipes side by side?
• Do you have a favorite 4R recipe and why?
• Have you ever had a bad barrel?
• Does the hype factor just play into a particular recipe?
• How come everyone thinks OESK is the best?
• What do you see as the typical recipe selections at a private barrel pick?
• Have you ever walked out and never picked a barrel?
• What do you think is a misconception of larger stores and their selections?
• Do you think picks done by Brent Elliott are better or worse than ones done by a store?
• Some words for Brent
• How do you go about trying all 10 recipes?
• Talk about trying to create your own Limited Edition Small Batches
• Why do you think Four Roses doesn't put out barrel proof Small Batch?
• The ages of barrel picks have been exponentially decreasing. Can they still keep this pace?
• Would you lose your mind over a Four Roses pick?
• Do you think the tags on the bottle showing the rack and details of the barrel are for the distillery to trace back anything for quality purposes or is it for the bourbon geeks?
• Are higher aged Four Roses that are 17 or 23 years old any good?
• Can you talk about the mutated yeast that contributed to the 125th anniversary bottle in 2013?
• Has the ME warehouse fad passed?

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This Legend Series brings podcast guests, Wes and Kyle Henderson, back on the show with the newest face of the clan joining the family ranks, Andrew. The focus on family touches on the impact Lincoln Henderson made on Angel's Envy before his passing and what the generations after him remember the most. Fred also tries to squeeze out some juicy details behind sourcing, acquisitions, and favorite bourbons outside of their own.

Show Notes:

• Are you paying more for barrel proof whiskey? Wade Woodard breaks down the math https://tater-talk.com/2018/10/29/value-proposition-of-higher-proof-us-whiskies/
• KY Derby Museum Legend Series are on sale. First one begins in Jan buy your tickets at derbymuseum.org/legendsseries
• This week's Above the Char with Fred Minnick discusses bourbon at large retail chains and it's impact on local business
• What's the story about a pickle?
• Talk about your dad, Lincoln Henderson, for a moment
• Was bourbon a part of your childhood?
• What was some nasty stuff you used to drink?
• Andrew, talk about your science experiments
• Is Kyle a good teacher?
• What are the moments you miss Lincoln the most?
• During the initial launch, talk about the process of choosing port barrels.
• It's a never ending discussion, is this bourbon?
• Would you like to see a special designation for barrel finishes?
• Take us through the process of putting it through the port barrel finish
• Is the barrel dry or wet?
• Where can we purchase the bourbon you use before port finishing?
• Wes, what's your official title now?
• Let's try the rye whiskey finished in rum barrels
• Is rye more flexible to blend?
• When Bacardi acquired you, when did they come in as a minority investor?
• What was that time like when you needed capital and needed to raise funds?
• What's your favorite bourbons outside of Angel's Envy?
• Lets talk about the Cask Strength Limited Release
• What is your future on an individual basis?
• Where is your warehouse growth needs?
• Talk about the design of the bottle.
• Past Angel's Envy Podcasts

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I guess this is our silver anniversary! We are joined by Josh Reidford who is the producer for the new AMC movie, BULLITT COUNTY, that opens in theaters this Friday the 26th. We discuss the fears of what would happen if a bourbon enthusiast won the 1.6 Billion Mega Millions lottery then wrap up the show talking if we would ever see a buyout of another large brand.

Show Notes:

• Pursuit Series launch by Pursuit Spirits
• This week's Above the Char with Fred Minnick examines the "dad tax" and encouraging more bourbon and food pairing to raise the bar
• Did anyone else realize is Sober October or Mocktober or whatever
• Bullitt County Producer Josh Riedford joins as a special guest
• BULLITT COUNTY tells the story of four friends who reunite for a bachelor party in the Fall of 1977 to hunt for buried Prohibition money on the Bluegrass Bourbon Trail only to become ripped apart by greed, corruption, and murder. Winner of SIX BEST PICTURE AWARDS from film festivals nationwide
• Trailer - https://vimeo.com/278106182
• Do you see more bourbon coming into your world of movie production.
• Lottery at 1.6 billion. If you had enough money for bourbon, what would you do?
• What distillery has the most American whiskey interest?
• Fred gave his lowest score of all time in Forbes

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When you see a 45 year old bourbon priced at $1800 retail, do you ask yourself, "Who are they kidding!?". That's exactly what Kenny thought before sitting down with our guest today. James "Buddy" Thompson brings more to this story than a bottle of bourbon. He was the Forman chairman of Glenmore Distillery and donated over $300,000 from the profits of James Thompson & Brother Final Reserve to charities that support Veterans. This episode will capture not only the history of Glenmore Distillery, but also make you intrigued to know what something that has aged 45 years in an oak barrel tastes like and the journey those barrels took until they were actually bottled. Show Notes:

• The “Private Labels” Ruling Whiskey’s Black Market from PunchDrink.com
• Join our Private Barrel Club at https://www.patreon.com/bourbonpursuit
• We are now on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/5Z3v7diyoqu0Zx7naH29jc
• This week’s Above The Char with Fred Minnick is a short list for 2018 American Whiskey of the Year and a Call to Action for listeners to tell him what to drink!
• Scott Scinta, how did you get into it?
• What was your initial reaction to the product or story?
• Buddy, tell us about your path into the spirits industry
• What happened between Brown and Thompson?
• Talk about your time at Glenmore Distillery
• Can you talk about Kentucky Tavern history and during those times at Glenmore?
• Were you overseeing operations? What was your role comprised of?
• Why not a 50 year?
• Are you a veteran yourself?
• Talk about your military past?
• How often were you going back and testing these barrels?
• Are they sad about losing their best tenant ever for resting these barrels?
• Talk about the extravagant packaging?
• Why a snifter rather than a glencairn?
• So this really wasn’t a big profit game?
• What's the release cycle of these look like?
• Why not make one big batch?
• How did Bill Thomas of Jack Rose become involved?
• Let’s start sampling
• This nose is incredible!
• It says "double oaked". So it's been barreled twice
• What was the entry proof 40+ years ago?
• What were some of your go to whiskies back then?
• Were you trying to find a target consumer?

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Lets face it. We go over to a buddy's house so we can try bourbon we don't have or because their collection is better than ours. How did they get their hands on it? Why are they so cool about sharing it? Michael St. Pierre and Aaron Stine are familiar names in the Facebook bourbon community. You've probably seen them buying, selling, or trading bottles but what's their end game? Learn how these seasoned vets have transformed their bourbon bunkers into what many would call, a bourbon candy land.

Show Notes:

• Get your copy of Bourbon Justice
• Subscribe to Bourbon+ for only $30 a year
• This week's Above The Char with Fred Minnick tries to define "What's a bourbon asshole?"
• Michael and Aaron, talk about how you got introduced to bourbon
• When did the itch hit you to start getting high end bourbons?
• Talk about your collection so we can baseline
• Talk about how you amass to the point where you have these crazy bottles in your collections
• Do you see Van Winkle bottles as being the ace in your pocket?
• You don't think the new Van Winkles are worth their weight now, so do you look at it as trade bait?
• Is there a shelf bourbon you even go to anymore?
• Do you waste your time getting Elijah Craig Barrel Proof or Elmer T Lee for for trading up?
• Have any of those open bottles turned into sample swaps?
• Given the expense of the rarities, what is your price limit for a bottle?
• What's your white whale?
• Do you have one more piece of advice for transforming your bunker?

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Empire Rye was founded by a group of distillers out of New York to create something so unique that it requires grains and a footprint in the Empire State. We're joined by Brian McKenzie of Finger Lakes Distilling, Christopher Williams of Coppersea Distilling, and Allen Katz of New York Distilling Co to discuss the culture of rye in New York and the regulations set forth by the Empire Rye act.

Show Notes:

• Shout out to Brad Bonds of Cork N Bottle for hosting us after our New Riff barrel selection
• Patreon Barrel Picks -> http://bourbo.nz/BarrelPicks
• This week's Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Trump, Trade, and NAFTA
• Chris thanks for coming on today because you about lost your voice this weekend too
• The oak is new and interesting. Are you sourcing from Independent Stave or somewhere local?
• Are you looking at different stave widths to adjust for micro-climates?
• Why culture of rye of NY? Can you talk about the history of it?
• Who came up with the idea of Empire Rye? And what is the sole idea behind it?
• During the drafting process, what are those elements that make something an "Empire Rye"?
• What are the stipulations about grains or can someone in a different state distill an Empire Rye?
• A rye whiskey is able to develop more flavor and mature faster than a bourbon at a 2 year state. Agree?
• What about the grains of NY make it interesting or fit that definition?
• What other grains are you experimenting with that other 25% that's allowable in the mash bill?
• Were you trying to find commonalities between bottled-in-bond act as well?
• Is there anyone actually enforcing the standard?
• When it comes down to the bottling proof, is there an expected standard or is it up to you all?
• Is there going to be a collaboration or plan on selling barrels with the standard of "Blended Empire Rye Whiskey"?
• What's the next phase to bring more NY distilleries on board?
• What's your distribution plan right now?
• Purchase Finger Lakes Empire Rye at Seelbach's - https://seelbachs.com/search?q=McKenzie

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